Tyson vs. Holmes: I NEED EVERYBODY'S EYES...PLEASE

[them_apples]

Holmes had very little preparation for that fight and was shot to **** anyway. No way this is Tyson's best win.

yea shot to **** from that Sd loss to Spinks. Then he regained some of his prime after the KO and defeated Mercer, almost got the best of Holyfield.

.......

don't be deluded, he wasn't at his best obviously, but shot? no way in hell. Absolutely no way. He actually looked like he was getting some success for a bit.

[BattlingNelson]

yea shot to **** from that Sd loss to Spinks. Then he regained some of his prime after the KO and defeated Mercer, almost got the best of Holyfield.

.......

don't be deluded, he wasn't at his best obviously, but shot? no way in hell. Absolutely no way. He actually looked like he was getting some success for a bit.

Holmes was some 6 years removed from his prime. Holmes was past it when he fought Spinks.

He might have made a couple of good fights and produced some good results in his comeback but that really says more about the opposition than it does about Holmes. One could perhaps say that Holmes in his comeback found some of the motivation that he might have lacked in the later years of his championship run, but motivation is really no match for father time.

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

Holmes was some 6 years removed from his prime. Holmes was past it when he fought Spinks.

He might have made a couple of good fights and produced some good results in his comeback but that really says more about the opposition than it does about Holmes. One could perhaps say that Holmes in his comeback found some of the motivation that he might have lacked in the later years of his championship run, but motivation is really no match for father time.

Bat I disagree with you here sir. i think Holmes was not past it when he fought Tyson. he may have been a way further down the road but far from shot. By your measures than a shot Holmes fought to a close decision with a Warrior in Holyfield the same Holyfield that would beat Tyson and draw with Lewis and arguably beat Lewis both times. The Holyfield that had the trilogy with Bowe? Bat Holmes wasn't past it A prime hungry well trained version of Iron Mike was way too much for him. Just goes to prove my point that a Prime hungry well trained Tyson 1985-1989 would have beat almost anyone.....Lefty

[Boogie Nights]

Holmes was some 6 years removed from his prime. Holmes was past it when he fought Spinks.

He might have made a couple of good fights and produced some good results in his comeback but that really says more about the opposition than it does about Holmes. One could perhaps say that Holmes in his comeback found some of the motivation that he might have lacked in the later years of his championship run, but motivation is really no match for father time.

again this was not the Jeffries-Johnson stunt. Hoolmes was trim during his retirement and his weight didnt baloon up like many of the other fighters we keep seeing today. If anything his 2 years of abscence from the ring brought back some of the hunger and fire he lacked in his last 5 fights.

Sure Holmes was not the guy that fought Shavers, or Cooney, but he was at the same type of level as was Big George when Foreman was making his comeback. Both former champs were old, but not old enough to call it quits as time showed us.

Please, if he was as shot as you claim he wouldnt have fought on for another 11 years.

Louis was shot against Rocky, Ali was shot against Holmes. Leonard was shot against camacho among many other obvious examples. Holmes wasnt vintage, but by no means was he shot against Tyson. Even his weight for Tyson fight was 5 pounds above what he weighed in early 80s.

[Boogie Nights]

Bat I disagree with you here sir. i think Holmes was not past it when he fought Tyson. he may have been a way further down the road but far from shot. By your measures than a shot Holmes fought to a close decision with a Warrior in Holyfield the same Holyfield that would beat Tyson and draw with Lewis and arguably beat Lewis both times. The Holyfield that had the trilogy with Bowe? Bat Holmes wasn't past it A prime hungry well trained version of Iron Mike was way too much for him. Just goes to prove my point that a Prime hungry well trained Tyson 1985-1989 would have beat almost anyone.....Lefty

Lol for every Tyson's good win there's an excuse behind it. When evaluating his opposition people dig out the names like Berbick, Biggs, and Green.

they convinetly leave out names like Tucker, Thomas, Tubbs, Spinks, Ruddock and Bruno. When they do mention them, there's an excuse for it too.

Tyson went through Carl williams in 1 round, a guy that went 15 rounds with Holmes in a fight most ringsiders thought he won.

He destroyed Stewart in one round, but Stewart went the distance with Foreman and Holy.

some people are just too damn ignorant to give out any credit. ****, everyone keeps saying Tyson is overated, id rather have him overated than be underatred by morons who know **** about heavyweights.

[BattlingNelson]

Bat I disagree with you here sir. i think Holmes was not past it when he fought Tyson. he may have been a way further down the road but far from shot. By your measures than a shot Holmes fought to a close decision with a Warrior in Holyfield the same Holyfield that would beat Tyson and draw with Lewis and arguably beat Lewis both times. The Holyfield that had the trilogy with Bowe? Bat Holmes wasn't past it A prime hungry well trained version of Iron Mike was way too much for him. Just goes to prove my point that a Prime hungry well trained Tyson 1985-1989 would have beat almost anyone.....Lefty

Boogie nights just posted some of the things I would say. Regarding Holyfield well Holmes was better prepared but the movement and speed just wasn't there anymore. Holmes would always be difficult for Holyfield but a prime Holmes would have no trouble with Evander.

again this was not the Jeffries-Johnson stunt. Hoolmes was trim during his retirement and his weight didnt baloon up like many of the other fighters we keep seeing today. If anything his 2 years of abscence from the ring brought back some of the hunger and fire he lacked in his last 5 fights.

Sure Holmes was not the guy that fought Shavers, or Cooney, but he was at the same type of level as was Big George when Foreman was making his comeback. Both former champs were old, but not old enough to call it quits as time showed us.

Please, if he was as shot as you claim he wouldnt have fought on for another 11 years.

Louis was shot against Rocky, Ali was shot against Holmes. Leonard was shot against camacho among many other obvious examples. Holmes wasnt vintage, but by no means was he shot against Tyson. Even his weight for Tyson fight was 5 pounds above what he weighed in early 80s.

Holmes was 2 years into his retirement when suddenly called upon as an opponent for Tyson. Holmes was interviewed by The Ring recently where he said that he didn't have time to prepare for Tyson. So he was ill prepared as well as several years removed from his prime.

Holmes comeback against Tyson is way different than the comeback of the old Vitali. Holmes had been in so many wars and fought perhaps 100 more professional rounds so he was finito.

[Lead Cenobite]

Holmes was some 6 years removed from his prime. Holmes was past it when he fought Spinks.

He might have made a couple of good fights and produced some good results in his comeback but that really says more about the opposition than it does about Holmes. One could perhaps say that Holmes in his comeback found some of the motivation that he might have lacked in the later years of his championship run, but motivation is really no match for father time.

Am I to assume that by proxy you think 90's Evander Holyfield was not every good?

[larry x]

holmes was float on his back and out..he fell like a might oak tree in the woods

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

Boogie nights just posted some of the things I would say. Regarding Holyfield well Holmes was better prepared but the movement and speed just wasn't there anymore. Holmes would always be difficult for Holyfield but a prime Holmes would have no trouble with Evander.



Holmes was 2 years into his retirement when suddenly called upon as an opponent for Tyson. Holmes was interviewed by The Ring recently where he said that he didn't have time to prepare for Tyson. So he was ill prepared as well as several years removed from his prime.

Holmes comeback against Tyson is way different than the comeback of the old Vitali. Holmes had been in so many wars and fought perhaps 100 more professional rounds so he was finito.

Bat again I disagree and Larry Holmes has been known to run his mouth and speak untruths by saying things like Rocky Marciano couldn't carry his jock strap....Larry Holmes was sitting on the side line and saw this young fighter getting all the props he could never get after following in Ali's foot steps I mean the biggest thing he was known as was a sparring partner for Ali right? here is this young kid taking the world by storn actually making people take na interest in the HW division again right. Larry said this kid is a hype job I can take him He made a call and wanted to fight Tyson not the other way around. Tyson was on his way to complete stardum if not already achieved it by becoming the best. Larry thought in his heart he could beat him or he wouldn't have gotten in the ring with him period end of story. That is the way I see it. Bat I know you my firend you are hard on Mike but this win was a good one and he destroyed Holmes.....Lefty

[Boogie Nights]

Holmes was 2 years into his retirement when suddenly called upon as an opponent for Tyson. Holmes was interviewed by The Ring recently where he said that he didn't have time to prepare for Tyson. So he was ill prepared as well as several years removed from his prime.

Holmes comeback against Tyson is way different than the comeback of the old Vitali. Holmes had been in so many wars and fought perhaps 100 more professional rounds so he was finito.

Holmes can say whatever he wants to now, no one underestimated Larry's mouth, and he had a big one. Like i said the tune Holmes was singing before the Tyson fight is different from the one he spews today. Shot Holmes who wasnt trained properly wouldnt show up at 225, end of/

And i already explained the difference between being shot and not at your best. You not being objective Nelson. Pople make much too much out of 2 years. There are number of examples of fighters fighting once a year. This era's oscar, next months' Mayweather, as well as Vitali who went way beyond the average retirement time capsule.