Tyson vs. Holmes: I NEED EVERYBODY'S EYES...PLEASE

[BattlingNelson]

Am I to assume that by proxy you think 90's Evander Holyfield was not every good?

You can assume that I rate Larry Holmes higher than Holyfield both head to head and in terms of legacy.

[BattlingNelson]

Bat again I disagree and Larry Holmes has been known to run his mouth and speak untruths by saying things like Rocky Marciano couldn't carry his jock strap....Larry Holmes was sitting on the side line and saw this young fighter getting all the props he could never get after following in Ali's foot steps I mean the biggest thing he was known as was a sparring partner for Ali right? here is this young kid taking the world by storn actually making people take na interest in the HW division again right. Larry said this kid is a hype job I can take him He made a call and wanted to fight Tyson not the other way around. Tyson was on his way to complete stardum if not already achieved it by becoming the best. Larry thought in his heart he could beat him or he wouldn't have gotten in the ring with him period end of story. That is the way I see it. Bat I know you my firend you are hard on Mike but this win was a good one and he destroyed Holmes.....Lefty

Holmes big mouth is welldocumented for sure.

Let's just say that Holmes was past prime and not prepared to the max given his 2 year absence. I'm sure that you lefty, as well as boogie-nights, as the fine and knowledgeable boxingpeople you are, agrees with me that Tyson's win over Holmes wasn't one of the best of Mike's career.

[Boogie Nights]

Holmes would always be difficult for Holyfield but a prime Holmes would have no trouble with Evander.

that's underating Evander and i dont agree with that. Your preception still comes from the theory that a 'shot' holmes was able to hang in there with fresh Evander for 12 rounds, thus a prime version would destroy Evander. Nonesense. which is not to say that i would favor Evander over Larry.

the thing is Holmes wasnt as shot as you make him out to be. Evander wasnt fighting the guy that Holmes was fighting in Ali. You want shot, then look at that fight and you'll see shot.

[BattlingNelson]

that's underating Evander and i dont agree with that. Your preception still comes from the theory that a 'shot' holmes was able to hang in there with fresh Evander for 12 rounds, thus a prime version would destroy Evander. Nonesense. which is not to say that i would favor Evander over Larry.

the thing is Holmes wasnt as shot as you make him out to be. Evander wasnt fighting the guy that Holmes was fighting in Ali. You want shot, then look at that fight and you'll see shot.

Where did I say that I based my opinion on the outcome of a prime Holyfield-Prime Holmes fight solely on an old Holmes vs. prime Holyfield? Don't put words in my mouth please.

Ali was also drugged with some weight-loss medication that left him drained, but he was totally shot allright.

[Boogie Nights]

Let's just say that Holmes was past prime and not prepared to the max given his 2 year absence. I'm sure that you lefty, as well as boogie-nights, as the fine and knowledgeable boxingpeople you are, agrees with me that Tyson's win over Holmes wasn't one of the best of Mike's career.

Bat you gave Vitali props for coming back and taking on the then current champ with a piece of the title in Peter. Sam is a can everybody knows it. But you say Larry's retirement from the ring is different from Vitalis', reason being Larry had more wars, and tougher fights in the ring, which is absolutely on point. But Larry is on another level. Guys like Micky Walker, Harry Greb all them fought 100s of fights on regular basis and their records speak for it.

Greb fought with one eye that didnt stop him form beating the best. Walker trained on beer and broads but licked the best middleweights and quality heavyweights of his day.

Holmes is of that same discipline, he's accustomed to having rought fights without making useless excuses.

[Boogie Nights]

Where did I say that I based my opinion on the outcome of a prime Holyfield-Prime Holmes fight solely on an old Holmes vs. prime Holyfield? Don't put words in my mouth please.

that's what it looked like to me and i put it out there. if that's not it, then i take it back.

I still dont think Holmes has an easy walkthrough with Holyfield, Prime for Prime.

[BattlingNelson]

Bat you gave Vitali props for coming back and taking on the then current champ with a piece of the title in Peter. Sam is a can everybody knows it. But you say Larry's retirement from the ring is different from Vitalis', reason being Larry had more wars, and tougher fights in the ring, which is absolutely on point.

What I omitted unintentionally in my comparison was that Vitali prepared a very long time for his comeback while Holmes didn't and yes it's an entirely different proposition facing Sam Peter than Mike Tyson in his prime for sure.

[them_apples]

Holmes was some 6 years removed from his prime. Holmes was past it when he fought Spinks.

He might have made a couple of good fights and produced some good results in his comeback but that really says more about the opposition than it does about Holmes. One could perhaps say that Holmes in his comeback found some of the motivation that he might have lacked in the later years of his championship run, but motivation is really no match for father time.

actually he fought some of his best competition during his comeback. His stint of 47-0 didn't really house a whole lot of great names.

I'd pick prime Holmes over Holyfield. In terms of greatness it's debatable, Holyfield has more losses but he fought top tier competition. Holmes has a prettier record (for the most part).

Holmes wasn't shot though, past his best yes, but not shot. Shot fighters don't take Evander Holyfield 12 rounds. (although I think Holyfield really beat him, he just couldn't get the KO over a tough chinned Holmes. so it really wasn't that close).

[BattlingNelson]

that's what it looked like to me and i put it out there. if that's not it, then i take it back.

I still dont think Holmes has an easy walkthrough with Holyfield, Prime for Prime.

Holyfield is crafty and skilled and never quits so he'll put up a fight. I just don't see him hurting Holmes at all and Holmes would easily control the fight with his super jab so I would think Holyfield could manage to win more than a couple of rounds.

[Boogie Nights]

What I omitted unintentionally in my comparison was that Vitali prepared a very long time for his comeback while Holmes didn't and yes it's an entirely different proposition facing Sam Peter than Mike Tyson in his prime for sure.

and how would you know that?