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  • Originally posted by Hitman Hodgson View Post
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle3300963.ece

    Bottom paragraph for Lewis' opinion
    I can't get it to work. Can you copy and past it or make sure the link works by clicking it.

    .................................................. Same article?

    Lewis’s understated dignity is in sharp contrast to the menace that his former foe still effortlessly exudes. But Tyson is bankrupt and apparently lost, drifting from place to place like a nomad, so that Lewis feels sympathy for his predicament.

    “You can’t help but sympathise. I mean, when you look at his life you really wouldn’t want your life to be like that, never,” he admits. “But a lot of it he’s brought upon himself. People took advantage of him and they may have affected the outcome but there’s a part of you that has to self-teach. Once you know right from wrong you have to build on that and you have to take responsibility. He got seduced in the old-fashioned way when people threw money in his face and told him that he could have it here and now. ‘I can get a car,’ he thought. ‘Hey, yeah, I can get a fleet of cars and girls, too. This is great.’

    “He got caught up in that. With me, my attitude was that all of the rewards were still going to be here once I’d accomplished my goals in the boxing ring. I faced the same pressures, the same temptations that Tyson did, but the difference was in my upbringing, the fact that I had a mother in my life and that I was afraid to upset her. I didn’t want to mess up at school, knowing that I would have to go home to face her. I even chose the strap once at school after getting into a fight with another kid, rather than have the principal call home to tell my mother – of course, he told her anyway and she shouted at me a lot.

    “Tyson never had that strong mother figure and when the person who cared for him [Cus D’Amato, Tyson’s former trainer and guardian] died, the man who stepped in to rescue him [promoter Don King] had fuzzy hair and his own agenda. Tyson was in trouble from that point. I heard that he’s looking like a bit of lumpy custard, is that true?”

    “He is looking old and podgy,” I tell him. “But his life was always going to end in a bad way.”

    “Actually, Tyson, for me . . . how I knew him . . . I don’t know him as he’s been portrayed,” Lewis asserts. “I know him as a nice person, humble and polite with good manners, that’s how I know him. But when you put gloves on him and he’s across the ring and comes at you like a madman . . . later on I got to understand why: he was afraid of the other guy.”

    Lewis was 18 and Tyson 17 when they met for the first time at D’Amato’s training camp in the Catskill Mountains in upstate New York. It was April 1984 and Lewis was the junior world amateur champion on his way to the Olympics in Los Angeles, for which Tyson failed to qualify.

    They sparred over a period of several days, five sessions in total, until D’Amato called a halt when a frustrated Tyson spat out at Lewis: “Come on, come on, hit me you son of a *****.” But they formed a bond over the course of that week, running, eating and watching film of old fights together, indulging in Tyson’s favourite pastime.

    “I used to ask myself the question, ‘Why did Tyson watch old fighters so much?’ Then I realised that he watched them to see how many dirty tricks he could get away with,” Lewis suggests, smiling. “Up in the Catskills he would always talk about how this fighter had this move and that fighter had another move, and he was referring to a guy who came in with his head or threw punches low on the referee’s blind side. He was working on perfecting those types of things.”


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle3295356.ece
    Last edited by Benny Leonard; 05-28-2009, 09:40 AM.

    Comment


    • For many years, Lennox Lewis was an outsider, derided by the American boxing establishment for being British, shunned by many in Britain for being Canadian, accused by many Canadians of being a deserter. Lewis, three times the world heavyweight champion, feels part of all those nations but remains British at heart, he says.

      In his 43rd year, and nearly five years since he threw his final punch, talk of a comeback seems like a long-forgotten joke. Instead, becoming one of sport's elder statesmen and a citizen of the world suits him. Racism was rife in the London he grew up in during the Seventies, but that, he believes, has changed.

      “You never hear monkey chants at British football grounds now like we did when England played Spain,” Lewis said during an interview with Piers Morgan for GQ magazine. “That was shocking. Britain has changed a lot. When I go back to my old neighbourhood in East Ham, I'm amazed by how different it seems. My barber, Carlos, is still there, but that's about it. The ethnicity is very different. And the laws are getting a lot stricter against racism, which is great. The Stephen Lawrence case and others have made a big difference.

      “I remember feeling that people didn't like me just because of my skin colour. But I also remember a lot of guys coming to beat me up and a white skinhead protecting me. And I was so shocked because I associated a skinhead with German ****s who hated ***s and black people.

      Related Links
      The Big Interview: Lennox Lewis
      Lennox Lewis: hits and misses
      “I knew then that there was a part of England that didn't like black people, or racial integration. And you still get that, but a lot of it is ignorance rather than racism. I think education and travel are so important.

      “My mum took me to Canada when I was 12, but I am British in my heart. There is a real fearlessness to the British that I feel. I came out of a dance in Canada when I was a teenager and about 30 kids came after me and my friend, and I said, ‘Let's stand our ground.' So we turned to these kids and said, ‘Come on then, let's have you.' And they all ran away, until there were just two or three left. In East London, that would never have happened. They'd have stayed together and beaten me up.

      “It was all fists in my day, whereas now in America it's all guns. It's like, ‘I only stepped on your toe, why the hell are you pulling a gun on me?' Different mentality.” The growing gun culture in Britain, especially among black youth, is something that needs to be stopped. “I'd love to get hold of these kids and say, ‘Why are you shooting your brother and sister?' Look in their eyes and ask, ‘Why? Your anger and frustration is being pushed in the wrong way.' Create more for these kids to do. Give them opportunities, get rid of concrete playgrounds. They are bored and join gangs for something to do.”

      Unlike many former boxers, Lewis does retirement well. He has settled down, got married, has a growing family and plenty of outside interests. He and Morgan are presently appearing in the The Celebrity Apprentice on NBC Television in the United States with Donald Trump. As of week five, the last episode broadcast, both are still in, although one other contestant, Vincent Pastore, the actor, quit claiming it was because of Morgan.

      The poor state of the heavyweight division means that Lewis's status as the last great champion continues to flourish. He can still hint at a return and know he will be listened to, even if he is almost certainly joking. But when you have been heavyweight champion of the world, shunning attention is not a requirement. Offers to return, he says, are on the table

      “We're up to about $40million [about £20million],” Lewis said. “And I've told them when it reaches $50million, I will take off my pyjamas.” More seriously, though, Lewis admits that he is not interested in a return. “I don't want my legacy taken away from me,” he said. “The heavyweight scene is boring now, so they want me back because it would be exciting. But I'm not interested. I was great. I beat everyone and I went back and beat the only two guys to beat me. And I retired after a victory, which only [Rocky] Marciano and [Gene] Tunney did.

      “Boxers either come back or continue fighting for two reasons - the atmosphere of the crowd, or the money. Sugar Ray Leonard wanted the buzz of the crowd, [Evander] Holyfield wants the money. Me? I don't need either. I'm happy as I am, thanks. I do a lot of commentary work for HBO, and I have other business interests. And I have my family to care for. And, of course, I have to continue being this iconic legend!”

      Morgan pushed Lewis on rumours that circulated during his career that he was gay. When Lewis first heard the talk, he said it did not annoy him, although that mood changed. “When people started coming up to me and asking if I was gay, it really bugged me,” Lewis said. “It was so ridiculous and I couldn't do anything to stop the rumour.”

      Lewis admitted that he wished he had had the chance to face Mike Tyson when he was at his peak as a 21-year-old, rather than the 35-year-old he knocked out in 2002, but he believes the result would have been the same. “He was one-dimensional,” Lewis said. “I was five-dimensional, I was an Olympic gold medal-winning boxer, with all the skills you need to do that. I was a boxer, puncher, mover, with far more skills than Tyson.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Benny Leonard View Post
        He had no grounds to complain because he was KTFO. The ref was right there and he saw the condition Holmes was in.

        They are not holding Holmes down and Holmes is not even moving. And it wasn't at 7:26 when they were near him. They may have been in the ring at that time but they weren't next to Larry at that point; they were still running over to him. The only person near him at 7:26 is the REF who is now taking out his mouth-piece, while Larry is still asleep. Look at his body; look at his eyes. Pause the video. Even at 7:30, when one guy kneeled down...they are checking on him but not holding him down...and again, Holmes is not moving. It even looks like they are trying to elevate Larry's head.)
        You might want to watch it a bit more carefully. I rewound it three times and wrote the times down each time as check.


        Originally posted by Benny Leonard View Post
        So that I don't have to go back...What's the debate again?

        Was it that Larry could have gotten up (even though it didn't matter)???
        My point was that he could have gotten up, not that it was the smart or practical thing to do.

        Poet

        Comment


        • =poet682006;5377998]You might want to watch it a bit more carefully. I rewound it three times and wrote the times down each time as check.
          Then we are watching different clocks. 7:26...what do you see?

          And who is holding him down?

          What is Larry doing at 7:26...then 7:31 and so on.

          Who is there....who is kneeling...who is holding him down as you say. How many people....
          State Time of action....


          My point was that he could have gotten up, not that it was the smart or practical thing to do.

          Poet
          Larry made no attempt to get up because he couldn't...it was over.



          Let's go through the break-down second by second....

          7:21...on his back

          Continue with what you see with each second after

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Benny Leonard View Post
            Then we are watching different clocks. 7:26...what do you see?

            And who is holding him down?

            What is Larry doing at 7:26...then 7:31 and so on.

            Who is there....who is kneeling...who is holding him down as you say. How many people....
            State Time of action....

            Larry made no attempt to get up because he couldn't...it was over.

            Let's go through the break-down second by second....

            7:21...on his back

            Continue with what you see with each second after
            I already gave you the ****ing breakdown if you're too obtuse to read that's your problem. Apparently you don't know how to tell time either or your too damn biased towards Tyson to give a ****. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over again because you're too ****** or biased to get it. I've tried to be pleasant with you but now you're just pissing me off.

            Poet

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Benny Leonard View Post

              And, if you want to bring up Bruno, that post-press conference is also very telling.
              He says hes not making excuses but all he is doing is making excuses. And its always the same excuse: "Im tired, I didnt train properly" Bruno fight, Douglas fight, Holyfield fight you name it...Its always the same story.

              I may not have watched every Tyson video in the history of existence as some of you guys, but I did read Teddy Atlas's book, and I know for a fact those excuses did not begin Post-Team D'mato.They were always there. Tyson used the "Im tired" "I broke my(insert body part here)" excuse against a no-name scrub from Scranton. He was on the verge of quitting, and Teddy basically had to jump in the ring to prevent Mike from embarrassing himself.

              Tyson was training 24/7 when he was with Damato, Rooney and Atlas, so you cant blame that particular incident on lack of training. Tyson usually blows his load in the first couple of rounds and if his guy isnt down by the mid rounds, he gets discouraged and mails it in.Sometimes hes lucky(Tucker) Sometimes hes not(Holyfield).

              If Prime Tyson fought the determined Lennox of the Rahman II fight, Tyson would most assuredly lose. Post-Rahman Lewis was not going to go down for any one. He survived against the hardest puncher in boxing in 2003 and I truly believe it was the pain of the Rahman loss that allowed him to do that. Lennox was in the worst shape of his career and still found a way to win. That champion spirit combined with the incredible shape he was in, in 2001 would be hard for Tyson to overcome. It would be the Scranton kid all over again, except Lewis has the skill to strike back.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Soir View Post
                He says hes not making excuses but all he is doing is making excuses. And its always the same excuse: "Im tired, I didnt train properly" Bruno fight, Douglas fight, Holyfield fight you name it...Its always the same story.

                I may not have watched every Tyson video in the history of existence as some of you guys, but I did read Teddy Atlas's book, and I know for a fact those excuses did not begin Post-Team D'mato.They were always there. Tyson used the "Im tired" "I broke my(insert body part here)" excuse against a no-name scrub from Scranton. He was on the verge of quitting, and Teddy basically had to jump in the ring to prevent Mike from embarrassing himself.

                Tyson was training 24/7 when he was with Damato, Rooney and Atlas, so you cant blame that particular incident on lack of training. Tyson usually blows his load in the first couple of rounds and if his guy isnt down by the mid rounds, he gets discouraged and mails it in.Sometimes hes lucky(Tucker) Sometimes hes not(Holyfield).

                If Prime Tyson fought the determined Lennox of the Rahman II fight, Tyson would most assuredly lose. Post-Rahman Lewis was not going to go down for any one. He survived against the hardest puncher in boxing in 2003 and I truly believe it was the pain of the Rahman loss that allowed him to do that. Lennox was in the worst shape of his career and still found a way to win. That champion spirit combined with the incredible shape he was in, in 2001 would be hard for Tyson to overcome. It would be the Scranton kid all over again, except Lewis has the skill to strike back.
                He's giving reasons and not excuses...there is a difference. It's only an excuse if it is coming from that one person and it is not valid, but when you have many people that varify it, it becomes a reason. He was not the same fighter after he left Rooney.
                Now, did he use excuses to put in his own mind not to train and to screw up?
                Yeah, most likely.

                Bruno I fight:
                Tyson said he wanted to be more active and he wasn't an active fighter at that point. That's what KING fighters are known for...INACTIVITY. That's something that goes against what Tyson was built on. Look at the activity level of Tyson while with Rooney/Cayton compared to King. Then look at who was training him when he was with King instead of Cayton.
                "This isn't Tyson of Vintage" = I'm not at my best. And he won that fight but he isn't ****** to believe he was perfect in that fight.


                Teddy Atlas's book?
                Yeah, I skimmed through that book as well. You do know that Tyson was a KID who had few amateur fights at that point...right?

                You do know that Tysn got better under ROONEY, right?

                You do know that Tyson DID NOT QUIT against Douglas, right?

                When he took a big shot from Tucker...did he quit? NO

                When Ruddock stood up to him and hit him back...even stunning him...did Tyson quit? NO. In fact, he gave him a rematch.

                When Holyfield stunned him badly...did Tyson quit?
                NO

                When Lewis pounded on his ass, did Tyson quit? NO

                He did retire against McBride though...but what do you expect from a Shot fighter that was running of fumes. I can list a number of ATG fighters that have done the same.

                How are you going to be the same fighter after you left what made you good in the first place?
                You leave your trainer, the man that helps make you at your best both Mentally and Physically and supplies the game-plan and understands your style...how can you be the same without him?


                What is the amteur program for and why do you fight so many fights which can lead you to have 100+ fights?
                Now how many amateur fights did Tyson have and how old was he when he was with Atlas?


                Tyson continually improved and that is what Cus was there for...that was what Rooney was there for...that was what Training was there for...that is what Maturity is there for.
                Training + Experience builds Confidence which builds Heart.

                Atlas didn't have Mike Tyson the Champion, let alone the 18 year old version of Tyson. He had a BOY with little experience.

                Now you want to use an "Excuse" for Lewis loss to Rahman, yet for Tyson...no excuses. Yeah, that's brilliant.
                And by the way, I understand the "reason" why Lewis may have lost in the Rahman I bout if true...which was not being focused.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
                  I already gave you the ****ing breakdown if you're too obtuse to read that's your problem. Apparently you don't know how to tell time either or your too damn biased towards Tyson to give a ****. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over again because you're too ****** or biased to get it. I've tried to be pleasant with you but now you're just pissing me off.

                  Poet
                  7:26...PAUSE... WHAT DO YOU SEE?

                  I'm going to have to ask others just in case I'm wrong.

                  But answer for that time.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Benny Leonard View Post
                    7:26...PAUSE... WHAT DO YOU SEE?

                    I'm going to have to ask others just in case I'm wrong.

                    But answer for that time.
                    Refer back to the previous post where you quoted what I saw at the 7:26 mark. You're too ****ing dumb to read your own ****ing post. What a nuthugging idiot.

                    Poet

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
                      Refer back to the previous post where you quoted what I saw at the 7:26 mark. You're too ****ing dumb to read your own ****ing post. What a nuthugging idiot.

                      Poet
                      The final knockdown occurs at the :06 mark of round for. Time on the video:

                      7:21 Holmes' back hits the canvas
                      7:23 Referee is removing the mouthpiece with his left hand waving the fight off with his right.
                      7:26 The attendents are now all over Holmes.

                      That's not even close to a full 10 count.
                      I only see the ref over him who is taking out his mouth-piece at that time...with Holmes lying on the ground, eyes shut, not moving.

                      Continue....

                      I'll make a thread for it to get other opinions.

                      Comment

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