The definitive poll: Who's higher on the ATG list--Calzaghe or Hopkins?

[SHB]

Pathetic little insults from somebody who got owned 6 ways from Sunday in this thread. I love it.

More than your sister?

[Patheticfraud?]

Wow 80% to 19% for Hopkins. Close poll.

[Obama]

apologies my memories of the MW division are toney, RJJ, hopkins and recently taylor and pavlik.

imo the MW division is in a p!ss poor state these days and i havne't really followed it

still dont think DLH had any buisness at MW - you can prove me wrong one way, if DLH's rehydration measures at MW were the same as they were at WW then i'll accept that he is a genuine MW.

also does anyone have the same facts about tito i.e. what he weighed on the weigh in and what he weighed come fight night from both his days as a WW and MW

You're paying attention to the wrong things. What you need to pay attention to is whether or not De La Hoya and Trinidad were considered better than the rest of the Middleweight division. The reality is, they were. And if you're considered better than everyone save 1 fighter (although Trinidad was actually heavily favored to beat Hopkins), how can you not belong in the weight division? It doesn't make any sense. They were both the best at JMW, a GOOD division, so how the hell could they not be among the best at MW, a WEAK divison? Size isn't everything, and half a full weight division doesn't mean ****. Great fighters beat other great fighters making full weight division jumps, whether they are undersized or not. It's happened time and time again in history. Trinidad and De La Hoya are guaranteed to be among the 200 greatest fighters of all time. They are plenty capable of this being applicable to them.

[Patheticfraud?]

Looks like those two losers left without a leg to stand on. Probably went to go cry about how terrible Calsassy gets treated and how it's so unfair. Boo hoo....

[Dirk Diggler UK]

That's why I just proved that Jay Larkin has zero credibility and you can't accept it.

You proved you had zero credibility with your very first post.

[Patheticfraud?]

You proved you had zero credibility with your very first post.

Yeah sure, Good comeback. Jay Larkin works for Frank Warren. The truth hurts. Deal with it.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Yeah sure, Good comeback. Jay Larkin works for Frank Warren. The truth hurts. Deal with it.

Calzaghe beat Hopkins. Truth hurts. Deal with it.

[SHB]

You're paying attention to the wrong things. What you need to pay attention to is whether or not De La Hoya and Trinidad were considered better than the rest of the Middleweight division. The reality is, they were. And if you're considered better than everyone save 1 fighter (although Trinidad was actually heavily favored to beat Hopkins), how can you not belong in the weight division? It doesn't make any sense. They were both the best at JMW, a GOOD division, so how the hell could they not be among the best at MW, a WEAK divison? Size isn't everything, and half a full weight division doesn't mean ****. Great fighters beat other great fighters making full weight division jumps, whether they are undersized or not. It's happened time and time again in history. Trinidad and De La Hoya are guaranteed to be among the 200 greatest fighters of all time. They are plenty capable of this being applicable to them.

Out of interest, how would you be considered the best in a division when you'd just been beaten by Sturm by any sane judge?

DLH - great lightweight and welterweight. But Middleweight? Behave.

[hookoutofhell]

Out of interest, how would you be considered the best in a division when you'd just been beaten by Sturm by any sane judge?

DLH - great lightweight and welterweight. But Middleweight? Behave.

co - sign

i realize where the argument is, that tito/DLH were better than the rest of the MW's - but i disagree, sturm would have beat them both and wright at 160 would have beat them both as well.

let say i do agree with you for the purposes of debate, the thing that irks me is that ppl overstate the wins. you have to recognize that the tito/DLH that hopkins beat were not the fighters that they were at 147, they were at 160 a weight that didn't suit them.

further more their history at 160 was not great; DLH had only fight at 160 prioir to hopkins an unconvincing win over sturm and although trinindad scored a KO over joppy many people have commented on these boards that the weight was too much for him to carry.

[Obama]

Out of interest, how would you be considered the best in a division when you'd just been beaten by Sturm by any sane judge?

DLH - great lightweight and welterweight. But Middleweight? Behave.

Sigh...the answer to this question has already been in my posts. You're simply unwilling to acknowledge it. Let me make it more clear:

1) De La Hoya was #1 JMW
2) De La Hoya came in fat against Sturm because he took him for granted
3) The decision was questionable, but it was far from a robbery. To give that fight to Sturm by more than 2 pts is absurd.

I mean did you watch both the Sturm and Hopkins fights? It's CLEARLY a better Oscar against Hopkins. This can't be ignored.