Roach Wants Pacquiao vs Mayweather-Marquez Winner

[Del Coqui]

TRAINER Freddie Roach wants Manny Pacquiao to wait for the outcome of the Floyd Mayweather Jr.-Juan Manuel Marquez fight set for July 18 and then take on the winner. [details]

I've been saying it, Arum is using Cotto's name to keep Floyd from demanding too much. If Floyd gets past Marquez, that's the fight that will happen. He doesn't wanna let go of that p4p by risking him against Cotto.

[JAB5239]

Hey Jab , the last two years of JMMs career would appear to the boxing fraternity to be enjoying the best boxing of his entire career and understandably JMM himself says it is the best he been ,,,,, so do you agree with JMM that he is on a career high or he was better in his last fight with Pac ?

I think he's on a career high as far as his popularity is concerned, for sure. And admittingly he hasn't fallen off to much considering his age, though I thought he looked better in the second Pac fight than he did against Diaz. But moving up in weight and age catch up with fighters rather quickly, which has been MY point all along. I agree with your analysis on weights, I just disagree with the theory that just because you fight at a certain weight fight night means you are going to be as sharp or as good when you actually move up to that weight.

If you go back thru my posts my biggest problems aren't with Marquez moving up (though I don't think its a good idea), it has more to do with Floyds legacy and money talk, and the fact he's MAKING JMM come above 140 when his nuthuggers have been saying right up till now that he isn't a true welterweight. No, he doesn't blow up after weigh ins. But he has proven that his strength, speed and stamina have not suffered since his days at 130. Im willing to wager that Marquez isn't going to be the same fighter July 18th and that this fight is a walkover even though Floyd has been off almost 2 years. If Im wrong I'll pay my debt (should someone take me up on the bet) and admit I was wrong just as I have in the past.

[JAB5239]

Who's changing the topic, I am just questioning your credibility on this topic because your favorite fighter is Miguel Cotto

you dont want to address it because you know you do not have any credibility to talk about weight advantages when your favorite fighter is Miguel Cotto

Your favorite fighter is Miguel Cotto and you are complaining about weight disadvantages....LMAO

Now that **** is a joke.

and I bet you would have no problem with
Paul Williams fighting Andre Ward,Jermain Taylor, or Mikkel Kessler at supermiddle weight if he could them out....now would you?

JAB it is ok though
you are alright in my book..

But you are just a hypocrite for trying to talk about weight advantages when your favorite fighter is Miguel Cotto.

The same guy who at 140-pounds and showed up 157 to fight Corley at junior welterweight.


You my dude have nerve to even come close to this topic knowing that your favorite fighter Miguel Cotto is a prime example of naturally bigger fighters fighting naturally smaller men to gain advantage.

Horus, stop acting like a joke and go start a new thread, and dig up all the posts where I defend my so called "favorite" fighter, then I'll dig up all your crap defending PBF at all costs and we'll see who is more objective here. Ok? All you have to do is start the thread.

[ThunderWolf]

They better watch the JMM-PBF fight closely, because JMM is supposed to lose. If not, a lot of people will lose millions of dollars cuz Pac-PBF will not happen. They better watch out for those mafia.

[jujdred]

Roach is not only a good trainer, but money seer and he sees big money between a pac-pbf fight. But don't count JMM out just yet. He may pull something out of his ass and surprise us all. But like I said money wise it's pac-pbf not cotto. I think Pac-JMM would also be a better money fight than with cotto.

[RodBarker]

I think he's on a career high as far as his popularity is concerned, for sure. And admittingly he hasn't fallen off to much considering his age, though I thought he looked better in the second Pac fight than he did against Diaz. But moving up in weight and age catch up with fighters rather quickly, which has been MY point all along. I agree with your analysis on weights, I just disagree with the theory that just because you fight at a certain weight fight night means you are going to be as sharp or as good when you actually move up to that weight.

If you go back thru my posts my biggest problems aren't with Marquez moving up (though I don't think its a good idea), it has more to do with Floyds legacy and money talk, and the fact he's MAKING JMM come above 140 when his nuthuggers have been saying right up till now that he isn't a true welterweight. No, he doesn't blow up after weigh ins. But he has proven that his strength, speed and stamina have not suffered since his days at 130. Im willing to wager that Marquez isn't going to be the same fighter July 18th and that this fight is a walkover even though Floyd has been off almost 2 years. If Im wrong I'll pay my debt (should someone take me up on the bet) and admit I was wrong just as I have in the past.

Ok so you are saying that JMM was at his best with Pac and possibly Diaz ok I agree with that and so does JMM himself and the rest of boxing ,, so by your own words he is at his best fighting at 144 pounds because thats what his weight was stepping into the ring in those fights 144 , regardless of your speculation I only want to deal with absolute known facts , and the only facts we have is the recorded weights of these fighters and here they are ,

JMM steps in the ring at his best at 144 pounds .
Mayweather steps into the ring at 147 pounds
Manny steps into the ring at 147 pounds

Manny vs JMM , Juan was 144 pounds and Manny was 147 pounds .

Floyd is 4 pounds heavier or bigger than what JMM ,,,,, 4 pounds , no if buts maybe 4 pounds end of story .

Your argument of what JMM might be is pure speculation and only your opinion and is a complete contradiction to you admitting that he is in his careers best form , Im not interested in speculation as it just goes around in circles with gibberish , only facts concerning Floyd and JMM .

I know the weigh-in weight concerning fights is all about WATER and not SUBSTANCE another fact that you cannot dispute , the human body CANNOT put on pounds of MUSCLE in 30 hrs its impossible so the only thing coming and going from weigh-in to fight time is WATER .

The process is very simple to get a basic understanding off , a fighter trains down to his best fighting weight which based on the average is around 12 pounds above the division they compete in , the higher the weight classes or bigger the man the more fluid he can lose so that number can be higher for them , the reason is simply to be as big as you can be at the weights , when its done correctly and Fighter A is losing 12 pounds or more water to compete in a lower division against Fighter B who weighs in at his best fighting weight without drying out , Fighter A has a huge advantage on the night of the fight after he puts back the 12 pounds .

To talk of forcing JMM above 140 pounds is ignoring the fact that he weighs 144 on the night of the fight and you keep only mentioning weigh-in weight which is not relative to this discussion of what thier best fighting weight is , the only difference in this fight with Floyd is JMM does not have to dry out his normal fluid loss as he always does , Manny was in the same boat with Oscar and so was Floyd it didnt hurt and it cant hurt them ,, now if the fight was 147 and JMM had to weigh-in at 147 I would then agree with you as he would be forced to gain 3-4 pounds above his best recorded weight ,,, thats not the case here .

Bottom line Floyd is 4 pounds bigger than JMM , while Cotto is 12+ pounds bigger than Floyd ,,,, at the weight JMM and Manny vs Floyd is a fairer fight than Cotto vs Floyd and Manny .

I posted this earlier and you failed to even mention it because it hammers home what Ive been saying all along .

http://www.boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/0008/two.htm


" Jim Watt, former lightweight champion of the world turned television pundit is one of the most vocal supporters of same-day weighing in. He is one of a growing minority of people within the sport who feel that the dangers of having huge weight discrepancies between fighters are greater than the dangers of dehydration.

Watt argues that too many fighters step off the scales to go on a 24-36 hour binge and pack on as much weight as possible before the first bell. He believes it is a case of a good theory making bad practice.

"Don't get me wrong, the idea is good," said Watt when I telephoned him. "Many of the dangers of boxing have been linked with dehydration, and so giving fighters 24 hours to re-hydrate their bodies therefore must be a good idea on paper.

"But the problem is that this time period is getting abused. Fighters who should not dream of fighting at certain weights are punishing their bodies, murdering themselves, to make the limit and then rely on this period of up to 36 hours to get back up to something like normal again.

"If they had to weigh in on the day of the fight, and if they wanted to fight with any sort of strength, they would be forced to fight at a more healthy weight for their bodies. This 24-36 hour period is giving fighters a lot of incentive to fight at the wrong weight."

And the dangers are exacerbated when only one fighter packs in the pounds. "When someone fights for a title at 12 stone [168lbs], that's exactly what he's supposed to be - a 12 stone fighter. He's not supposed to be a bloody cruiserweight. It's totally unfair to those boxing at a more natural weight - the ones who aren't taking these silly chances with their health. Sometimes these guys are giving away a full stone in weight and I don't need to say that's dangerous. They are at a massive disadvantage. Essentially these fellows are punished for been sensible and abiding by the rules."

[JAB5239]

Ok so you are saying that JMM was at his best with Pac and possibly Diaz ok I agree with that and so does JMM himself and the rest of boxing ,, so by your own words he is at his best fighting at 144 pounds because thats what his weight was stepping into the ring in those fights 144 , regardless of your speculation I only want to deal with absolute known facts , and the only facts we have is the recorded weights of these fighters and here they are ,

JMM steps in the ring at his best at 144 pounds .
Mayweather steps into the ring at 147 pounds
Manny steps into the ring at 147 pounds

Manny vs JMM , Juan was 144 pounds and Manny was 147 pounds .

Floyd is 4 pounds heavier or bigger than what JMM ,,,,, 4 pounds , no if buts maybe 4 pounds end of story .

Your argument of what JMM might be is pure speculation and only your opinion and is a complete contradiction to you admitting that he is in his careers best form , Im not interested in speculation as it just goes around in circles with gibberish , only facts concerning Floyd and JMM .

I know the weigh-in weight concerning fights is all about WATER and not SUBSTANCE another fact that you cannot dispute , the human body CANNOT put on pounds of MUSCLE in 30 hrs its impossible so the only thing coming and going from weigh-in to fight time is WATER .

The process is very simple to get a basic understanding off , a fighter trains down to his best fighting weight which based on the average is around 12 pounds above the division they compete in , the higher the weight classes or bigger the man the more fluid he can lose so that number can be higher for them , the reason is simply to be as big as you can be at the weights , when its done correctly and Fighter A is losing 12 pounds or more water to compete in a lower division against Fighter B who weighs in at his best fighting weight without drying out , Fighter A has a huge advantage on the night of the fight after he puts back the 12 pounds .

To talk of forcing JMM above 140 pounds is ignoring the fact that he weighs 144 on the night of the fight and you keep only mentioning weigh-in weight which is not relative to this discussion of what thier best fighting weight is , the only difference in this fight with Floyd is JMM does not have to dry out his normal fluid loss as he always does , Manny was in the same boat with Oscar and so was Floyd it didnt hurt and it cant hurt them ,, now if the fight was 147 and JMM had to weigh-in at 147 I would then agree with you as he would be forced to gain 3-4 pounds above his best recorded weight ,,, thats not the case here .

Bottom line Floyd is 4 pounds bigger than JMM , while Cotto is 12+ pounds bigger than Floyd ,,,, at the weight JMM and Manny vs Floyd is a fairer fight than Cotto vs Floyd and Manny .

I posted this earlier and you failed to even mention it because it hammers home what Ive been saying all along .

None of this changes the fact that he is moving up against a guy stronger and more comfoprtable competing at that weight. It doesn't change the historical facts concerning success rates of fighters moving up in weight.

We're going to have to agree to disagree because you're not going to budge and neither am I. Would have been nice to find some middle ground, but its not happening.

http://www.boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/0008/two.htm


" Jim Watt, former lightweight champion of the world turned television pundit is one of the most vocal supporters of same-day weighing in. He is one of a growing minority of people within the sport who feel that the dangers of having huge weight discrepancies between fighters are greater than the dangers of dehydration.

Watt argues that too many fighters step off the scales to go on a 24-36 hour binge and pack on as much weight as possible before the first bell. He believes it is a case of a good theory making bad practice.

"Don't get me wrong, the idea is good," said Watt when I telephoned him. "Many of the dangers of boxing have been linked with dehydration, and so giving fighters 24 hours to re-hydrate their bodies therefore must be a good idea on paper.

"But the problem is that this time period is getting abused. Fighters who should not dream of fighting at certain weights are punishing their bodies, murdering themselves, to make the limit and then rely on this period of up to 36 hours to get back up to something like normal again.

"If they had to weigh in on the day of the fight, and if they wanted to fight with any sort of strength, they would be forced to fight at a more healthy weight for their bodies. This 24-36 hour period is giving fighters a lot of incentive to fight at the wrong weight."

And the dangers are exacerbated when only one fighter packs in the pounds. "When someone fights for a title at 12 stone [168lbs], that's exactly what he's supposed to be - a 12 stone fighter. He's not supposed to be a bloody cruiserweight. It's totally unfair to those boxing at a more natural weight - the ones who aren't taking these silly chances with their health. Sometimes these guys are giving away a full stone in weight and I don't need to say that's dangerous. They are at a massive disadvantage. Essentially these fellows are punished for been sensible and abiding by the rules."

Im also an advocate of same day weigh ins. But what we have now is what we have. I have a feeling this srgument wouldn't even have taken place were there same day weigh ins.

Im done with this thread Rod. I'll catch you on another one.

[RodBarker]

Im also an advocate of same day weigh ins. But what we have now is what we have. I have a feeling this srgument wouldn't even have taken place were there same day weigh ins.

Im done with this thread Rod. I'll catch you on another one.

hehe we agree on something we had our moments but alls good

[Xcusemymood]

I'll bet every point you have that when its time to make this fight if Floyd doesn't get the majority or a garuantee the fight gets nixed. His ego will not let him settle for less than ANY fighter who isn't named DeLaHoya. Bank on it.

Again......35-65 is ******ed.

If that is the offer no "normal" person would expect Floyd to take it.

[Xcusemymood]

Really? What part of what I said wasn't true?

Yes really you are being a hater.