Frank Bruno vs Wladimir Klitschko (OFFICAL POLL)

[Poet682006]

Well Tillis he stopped on cuts and Tillis was not exactly undefeatable, ok he made Tyson look bad, so what, by the time Bruno fought him he was an opponent pure and simple, 1980's Bugner beat him before Bruno. Fergusan had a couple of decent wins but again was an opponent. Ditto Williams who Bruno fought a couple of months after Tommy Morrison had beat the granny out of him. If they had any realistic chance they wouldn't have been in the ring with Bruno. Looking at Bruno's fights before he was given his 1st shot against Tyson. Tillis, Chuck Gardner, Reggie Gross then an ancient overweight Joe Bugner. Do you really think that he deserved a shot given that opposition? On paper his record looks ok he only lost to world champions but he was never risked against anyone who could realistically win until he got that title shot. Terry Lawless just happened to make 1 error against Bonecrusher.

Tillis was done as a top contender before he fought Tyson so you need to hold Mike to the same standard. Was Tyson ever risked before he got HIS title shot? Uh, no. Was either Klitschko? No. The fact that both actually LOST to some of those same people says alot about them.

I agree that good prospects are matched to pad the record but is a man fighting for the title a 4th time still counted as a prospect? And does beating Fergusan, Rodolfo Marin and Mike Evans earn you that 4th shot?

You mean like Ferguson getting a title shot against Bowe at roughly the same time as he fought Bruno? Or maybe Tyson fighting Henry Tillman? Or Bert Cooper getting a shot at Holyfield? You can pull these kind of matchups off of anyone's record.

Give you that ring was best punchers but its kind of fly **** and pepper can you think of any hard punchers who sarn't on that list, I'm struggling.

This presumes that YOU are familier with every fighter that's come down the pike with legitimate KO power. Somehow I doubt that.

Poet

[them_apples]

bruno would KO wlad, Bruno in his hey day was at the top of the crop and fought much better competition. Wlad is just one of the new bums whos happens to be better than the other bums.

[GJC]

Tillis was done as a top contender before he fought Tyson so you need to hold Mike to the same standard. Was Tyson ever risked before he got HIS title shot? Uh, no. Was either Klitschko? No. The fact that both actually LOST to some of those same people says alot about them.




You mean like Ferguson getting a title shot against Bowe at roughly the same time as he fought Bruno? Or maybe Tyson fighting Henry Tillman? Or Bert Cooper getting a shot at Holyfield? You can pull these kind of matchups off of anyone's record.



This presumes that YOU are familier with every fighter that's come down the pike with legitimate KO power. Somehow I doubt that.

Poet

You doubt that why, you know nothing about me? I acknowledge that you have knowledge about boxing, I do too. Maybe I am getting too old I judge boxers by what I can see rather than names on a record, still it obviously works. ok name me one fighter who was a legitimate contender in your opinion that Bruno fought outside of a title fight? You seem to have me down as a klit fan i'm not I just think in this match up he is the best of a bad pair. So don't talk down to people when they don't agree with you and make judgements on people based on little knowledge. So name this power hitting fighter that didn't make that list trust me i'll know him. I have heard of Les Darcy I just wouldn't be pretentious enough to put a fighter who was dead at 22 and never left Australia and who there is only some poor 90 yo film of, as an ATG middleweight but then I'm not trying to show off.

[Poet682006]

You doubt that why, you know nothing about me? I acknowledge that you have knowledge about boxing, I do too.

I say that because I know of NO one who can make that claim. Even the most knowledgable boxing historians are going to have negligible familiarity about some fighters.

Maybe I am getting too old I judge boxers by what I can see rather than names on a record, still it obviously works.

I have heard of Les Darcy I just wouldn't be pretentious enough to put a fighter who was dead at 22 and never left Australia and who there is only some poor 90 yo film of, as an ATG middleweight but then I'm not trying to show off.

Selecting ATGs isn't just about watching film: You have to do a little research too and see what their contemporaries thought of them and also how boxing historians (ie. people with presumably more knowledge about the sport than either you or I possess) see them.

You seem to have me down as a klit fan i'm not I just think in this match up he is the best of a bad pair.

In reviewing my posts I can't see anywhere where I indicated you were a Klit-Licker. I DID make a post responding to Klitschko2009 aka Wlad_Ownz who is a notorious Klitschko nuthugger.

ok name me one fighter who was a legitimate contender in your opinion that Bruno fought outside of a title fight?

Jesse Ferguson - Got a title shot against Bowe
Carl Williams - Got two title shots against Holmes and Tyson
Gerrie Coetzee - A former alphabet belt holder
Bonecrusher Smith - Got multiple title shots
Scott LeDoux - Got a title shot against Holmes
Pierre Coetzer - No title shots but considered a contender at the time

So name this power hitting fighter that didn't make that list trust me i'll know him.

Just glancing at the list I noticed three immediately:

Buddy Baer
Tony Ayala
Tony Galento

All were hard punchers in their weight class and didn't make the list. A case could also be made for Aaron Pryor. Again, that list is for "best" punchers (ie. effective punchers) not "hardest" punchers. You can have all the power in the world but if you're too clumsy, or too slow, or too wild to land cleanly consistantly you probably won't make the list. With a little research (or even a little time for reflection) I imagine I could come up with some other fighters with very good power that didn't make the list.

Poet

[paul750]

There's a spilt in opinion as to whether Bruno was just ''A big strong guy'' or ''A big strong guy with some decent fundamentals''. I think it's the latter. Yes he was stiff, and was certainly no Larry Holmes, but he was a very big puncher with a good jab. Obviously the guy had stamina issues and had a tendency to fold after being nailed with a good shot, but I think against someone like Wladimir, that doesn't matter as much.

Bruno, along with a lot of others, has the ability to stop Klitschko early on.

[paul750]

That punch he lands on McCall at around 2:36 would probably stop Wladimir. I think McCall said it was the hardest punch he was hit with.

[mickey malone]

Love the POET & GJC... Brains at work.. Not often you get that on here!

NO ONE in the history of the game tried as hard as FB.. He got his goal & that's about the strength of it.. ZERO natural ability, but he was far too much for (iron chin) McCall on the night.. Don't think Wlad would've beaten McCall cos he's lost to inferiors thus far....

[Davros?]

Love the POET & GJC... Brains at work.. Not often you get that on here!

NO ONE in the history of the game tried as hard as FB.. He got his goal & that's about the strength of it.. ZERO natural ability, but he was far too much for (iron chin) McCall on the night.. Don't think Wlad would've beaten McCall cos he's lost to inferiors thus far....

Yeah Bruno even admit in in article that i read that he wasnt the most skilled guy, but he did have a very good jab and a very powerfull right hand he also had a good left hook, His resume is not great by any means but it is ok, maybe he didnt deserve so many title shot but you cant take away the fact that he gave Lewis a lot of trouble and was able to hurt Tyson, and he was able to beat McCall who was a decent fighter maybe he wasnt at his best going into that fight i remember seeing McCall crying on the way to the ring but he did that in almost all his major fights, I think it would be a close run thing as both have big power in the right hand and a good jab, Wlad has more talent but that doesnt always win you a fight.

[GJC]

I say that because I know of NO one who can make that claim. Even the most knowledgable boxing historians are going to have negligible familiarity about some fighters.





Selecting ATGs isn't just about watching film: You have to do a little research too and see what their contemporaries thought of them and also how boxing historians (ie. people with presumably more knowledge about the sport than either you or I possess) see them.



In reviewing my posts I can't see anywhere where I indicated you were a Klit-Licker. I DID make a post responding to Klitschko2009 aka Wlad_Ownz who is a notorious Klitschko nuthugger.



Jesse Ferguson - Got a title shot against Bowe
Carl Williams - Got two title shots against Holmes and Tyson
Gerrie Coetzee - A former alphabet belt holder
Bonecrusher Smith - Got multiple title shots
Scott LeDoux - Got a title shot against Holmes
Pierre Coetzer - No title shots but considered a contender at the time




Just glancing at the list I noticed three immediately:

Buddy Baer
Tony Ayala
Tony Galento

All were hard punchers in their weight class and didn't make the list. A case could also be made for Aaron Pryor. Again, that list is for "best" punchers (ie. effective punchers) not "hardest" punchers. You can have all the power in the world but if you're too clumsy, or too slow, or too wild to land cleanly consistantly you probably won't make the list. With a little research (or even a little time for reflection) I imagine I could come up with some other fighters with very good power that didn't make the list.

Poet

Legitimate contenders??? Yeah Fergusan got a shot by winning 2 out of 6 fights, LeDoux got a shot by winning 1 out of 4. Coetzee came to go to the shops, I went to that fight btw. Williams was a contender 4 years before, hell why not throw Bugner in, he'd BEEN a contender.
A legitimate contender not a tune up fight, i.e. someone who you think could have a realistic chance of winning the title. Pierre Coetzer was wheeled out a couple of months after Bowe had ruined him, still it looks good on paper.
I note you didn’t mention Bruno in the nearly 30 fighters you mentioned in your ATG heavyweight list, a title holder, one of the acknowledged hardest hitting heavyweights in history who only lost 5 fights all to world champions, did you forget?
Tony Ayala Jnr ok he would be worth looking at, Tony Galento and Buddy Baer??? You’re kidding right? Hell Jack Doyle could hit put him on there too.
So basically by your rationale I get a reasonable hard hitting heavyweight with a resonable chin, dig out Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson and might as well drag out poor Ali, get him to beat them and then either retire him or better still for the legend murder him and in 100 years time he will be ranked as the greatest heavyweight ever. Undefeated after beating 3 ATG’s.
I think we are going to have to agree to differ and leave it there Poet IMO

[Banderivets]

There's a spilt in opinion as to whether Bruno was just ''A big strong guy'' or ''A big strong guy with some decent fundamentals''. I think it's the latter. Yes he was stiff, and was certainly no Larry Holmes, but he was a very big puncher with a good jab. Obviously the guy had stamina issues and had a tendency to fold after being nailed with a good shot, but I think against someone like Wladimir, that doesn't matter as much.

Bruno, along with a lot of others, has the ability to stop Klitschko early on.

I agree that he has the potential to stop him.

But are you saying that he WOULD stop him?

Because I can really see the fight go both ways.


Problem with Wlad is that it seems anytime a fighter of the now or the past has some pop, people will pick him over Wlad....I just dont get it.

There have been only few fighters Wlad fought that didht have the potential to knock his ass out...I mean Id let Chris Byrd hit me too (knock my ass out....but just for example) but Wlad hasnt been fighting feather fisted men his entire carreer.