Ali speaking about fighting Marciano - ''Marciano would be the most trouble''

[horge]

Ali by UD.

I don't get the size comments though.
Wasn't Holyfield dissed as too light for real-deal HW?
Had Lennox in trouble in the first bout, and a prime Holy
would have finished him off.

Also...
Ali wasn't saying Marciano would beat him, nor saying he'd
automatically beat Rocky. Marciano would simply have been
the worst trouble for him, and precisely because Marciano
was like a "no-style brawler" with a good chin.

Maybe when Ali made the comments, he was off his prime, and so
to my mind was relying more and more on his ability to slough off
an opponents punches, by anticipating them. If an opponent has
no predictable "style", then anticipating his punches becomes a far
more dangerous game... especially if the punches come hard, lol....

I remember that ****tard Nacho and his ward JMM saying the same
thing about Pacquiao after the first bout: Pac's lack of a discernable
style was serious problem for a counterpuncher. Doh...

h.

[Allucard]

Marciano would just keep working and working and working. He was an arm bruiser...hitting his oppositions arms all night causing his opponents arms to get tired and eventually drop leaving the head open for punishment. I could def see him giving Ali trouble in a 15 round fight.

Like prime Ali would just sit there waiting for Mr "bruiser" to work him. All great fighters have one thing in common: They give credit to other fighters who weren't as talented. Remember Lewis on Hay, Foreman is very gracious too, the true great ones all are, specially when they are older and feel no longer the need to measure themselves against no one. This seems to be the case here. In a 15 rounder Marciano would have been Gatti and prime Ali would be Mayweather for all 15 round. I can't imagine Rocky (or Apollo) winning a single round unless that's a bad round for Ali.

[Allucard]

Ali by UD.

I don't get the size comments though.
Wasn't Holyfield dissed as too light for real-deal HW?
Had Lennox in trouble in the first bout, and a prime Holy
would have finished him off.

Also...
Ali wasn't saying Marciano would beat him, nor saying he'd
automatically beat Rocky. Marciano would simply have been
the worst trouble for him, and precisely because Marciano
was like a "no-style brawler" with a good chin.

Maybe when Ali made the comments, he was off his prime, and so
to my mind was relying more and more on his ability to slough off
an opponents punches, by anticipating them. If an opponent has
no predictable "style", then anticipating his punches becomes a far
more dangerous game... especially if the punches come hard, lol....

I remember that ****tard Nacho and his ward JMM saying the same
thing about Pacquiao after the first bout: Pac's lack of a discernable
style was serious problem for a counterpuncher. Doh...

h.

If Ali would win by decision i don't think they could take Rocky out of comma! Best for Rocky would be a fast KO but he was a warrior in the ring and would prolly try hard.

[Boogie Nights]

Ali has had trouble with worse and smaller fighters than Marciano.

Chuvalo was not smaller than Marciano. While his intensity may not have matched up to Marcianos' he was still a very physical fighter with probably the best chin in boxing. Chuvalo is really underated and not given much credit nowadays, but in truth he was a durable boxer. He could have been a world champ, but then again he fought in an era when heavyweights were the most dangerous people on the planet.

Doug Jones wasnt smaller than Marciano, he was about 3 inches taller and ranged 185-90 ibs. about the same minus the height. limited, but dangerous. But then again it wasnt a peak version of ali who then was only a little more than a cruiserweight. Just as Ali had trouble against smaller fighters he also went on to destroy much bigger fighters.

Same for Cooper, he wasnt smaller. It may appear so, but he was just taller and longer. Averaged 190 on a slim body. Cooper was actually known for his left hook, in Britain they called it "Enry's ammer".

[TheGreatA]

Chuvalo was not smaller than Marciano. While his intensity may not have matched up to Marcianos' he was still a very physical fighter with probably the best chin in boxing. Chuvalo is really underated and not given much credit nowadays, but in truth he was a durable boxer. He could have been a world champ, but then again he fought in an era when heavyweights were the most dangerous people on the planet.

Chuvalo was not smaller but he fought in a similar style as Marciano did except not as well (in my opinion). Throughout his career he had trouble with slick boxers and was never truly able to figure out a way to beat them.

Chuvalo vs Ali II:



I thought Chuvalo put in a good showing even though most thought he was shot.

Doug Jones wasnt smaller than Marciano, he was about 3 inches taller and ranged 185-90 ibs. about the same minus the height. limited, but dangerous. But then again it wasnt a peak version of ali who then was only a little more than a cruiserweight. Just as Ali had trouble against smaller fighters he also went on to destroy much bigger fighters.

Jones used to fight as a light heavyweight though (weighing in at 171 lbs against Harold Johnson). He was 6 feet tall while Marciano was 5'10-5'11.

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...9378&cat=boxer

Same for Cooper, he wasnt smaller. It may appear so, but he was just taller and longer. Averaged 190 on a slim body. Cooper was actually known for his left hook, in Britain they called it "Enry's ammer".

Cooper had a great left no doubt but according to Cooper himself he never weighed more than 190 lbs (at his best). He said he actually used to put weights in his pockets to make him appear heavier.

Cooper himself was hardly a heavyweight - certainly not in terms of today's tonnage. He never weighed above 14st; his heaviest was 13st 13lb. "And I couldn't move. My best fighting weight was 13st 8lb, so I thought, 'Sod that' and went back to where I felt comfortable."

The second time he fought Ali, in 1966, he was even lighter - unofficially weighing well under 13st. "I must have been around 12st 10lb, but Jim [Wicks] had two lead soles made which I put in my boxing boots when I got on the scales, and he also slipped me a little lead weight which weighed three or four pounds. I had that in my hand and I weighed 13st 4lb."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...ue-410739.html

[Boogie Nights]

Chuvalo was not smaller but he fought in a similar style as Marciano did except not as well (in my opinion). Throughout his career he had trouble with slick boxers and was never truly able to figure out a way to beat them.

Chuvalo vs Ali II:



I thought Chuvalo put in a good showing even though most thought he was shot.



Jones used to fight as a light heavyweight though (weighing in at 171 lbs against Harold Johnson). He was 6 feet tall while Marciano was 5'10-5'11.

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...9378&cat=boxer



Cooper had a great left no doubt but according to Cooper himself he never weighed more than 180 lbs. He said he actually used to put weights in his pockets to make him appear heavier.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...ue-410739.html

True Jones started as a light heavy but he grew well into the weight and didnt carry any extra blubber. Jones himself wasnt a monster but next to Rocky he matches equally in terms of size. Rocky himself was as low as 180 for couple of his fights, when matching them together i dont see how rocky appears to be bigger, stronger sure, but not larger. Despite Rocky being measured at 5'10 i always looked at him being more near 5'9, but that's debatable.

Hmmm, never knew Cooper used to pull Bob Fitz at the scales, interesting.....

Yeah George did well in the rematch, and he thought he won both fights lol George claimed he only had 17 days preparation for the fight, but because he always stayed in shape between fights he took it anyway.

[TheGreatA]

True Jones started as a light heavy but he grew well into the weight and didnt carry any extra blubber. Jones himself wasnt a monster but next to Rocky he matches equally in terms of size. Rocky himself was as low as 180 for couple of his fights, when matching them together i dont see how rocky appears to be bigger, stronger sure, but not larger. Despite Rocky being measured at 5'10 i always looked at him being more near 5'9, but that's debatable.

Hmmm, never knew Cooper used to pull Bob Fitz at the scales, interesting.....

Yeah George did well in the rematch, and he thought he won both fights lol George claimed he only had 17 days preparation for the fight, but because he always stayed in shape between fights he took it anyway.

It's surprising that Chuvalo didn't get any more big fights after that. He went the rest of his career unbeaten, winning all by knockout, although against lesser opposition.

First fight commentated by Ali and Cosell:


Based on his performances against Ali, Patterson and Quarry you wouldn't think that Chuvalo could lose to some of the men that he did but as you said he often took fights on a very short notice.

He was in fact coming off a loss to an unknown before the first fight against Ali which is why the media and also Ali did not take him very seriously as a challenger. Turns out it was one of Ali's most competitive title defenses.

[Parody]

I've seen the knockdown several times and it was legitimate. He got clobbered with that shot. See this link:
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...d=97&cat=boxer
I never seen Marciano drop like that before. Not even when he was facing monster punchers.

I know everyone has an opinion and I can respect that, so I'll just leave it alone.

No he didn't, he stepped on Ali's foot and besides Ali faced big heavyweights and dangerous fighters like Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Earnie Shavers taking some hard shots in the frazier trilogy while the Heavyweights competing in Marciano's era would be todays Cruiserweights/Light heavyweights. They were all around 170-205 lbs range, Name some "monster punchers" your talking about, an out of prime Louis does not count. Dont get me wrong Marciano is an ATG and a great fighter but I dont think he can hang with Ali, based on size and skills. Just my personal opinion that I think Prime Foreman, Prime Frazier and Prime Liston were more dangerous fighters than Archie Moore, Joe Walcott, and a past prime Louis as these fighters in today's era would be considered light heavyweights.

[Boogie Nights]

It's surprising that Chuvalo didn't get any more big fights after that. He went the rest of his career unbeaten, winning all by knockout, although against lesser opposition.

First fight commentated by Ali and Cosell:


Based on his performances against Ali, Patterson and Quarry you wouldn't think that Chuvalo could lose to some of the men that he did but as you said he often took fights on a very short notice.

He was in fact coming off a loss to an unknown before the first fight against Ali which is why the media and also Ali did not take him very seriously as a challenger. Turns out it was one of Ali's most competitive title defenses.

Yeah, George pretty much fought everybody. In 1962 he was ranked #2 in the world. Later that year after he outpointed Mike DeJohn they offered him a Liston fight. Chuvalo really wanted to fight for the title, but at that point he was low on money. They only offered him $25 000 and it was basically the same number they offered him in 1958 for Liston. He turned it down hoping to challenge Liston if he was going to beat Ali in the rematch. Didnt happen, Liston took a dive. George lost a close fight to Patterson instead.

He could have gotten the WBA title from Earnie Terrell but felt he got robbed.

I thought George could have done a lot better, he actually trained hard in his time and wasnt a slacker. Financial reasons and trouble outside of the ring kept him from achieving the best possible results.

the body work he did against ali was beautifull.

[Chase8400]

Ali was not in his Prime.

Everybody else is in their primes between 25 and 33 or so, why is that an exception for Ali? He went on to a ton of great wins afterwards that PROVE you wrong. If you want to continue to offer that opinion, that's fine but at least understand and admitt that it is just that, an OPINION of yours and nothing more.