Where Does Roy Jones Jr Rank Amongst the ATGs?

[andrewcuff]

Many former middleweights have been able to win a heavyweight title. No former middleweight champion had done it since Bob Fitzsimmons however, although Toney repeated the same feat against the same champion shortly after Jones did it.

It's not a victory that would get Jones a top 10 ranking, in my opinion.

Montell Griffin beat Toney 3 months after Jones.

Where would you rank him?

[andrewcuff]

10-25.

Resume weak? Geez, what does that say for nearly every other fighter of the past 20 years?

Maybe weak is the wrong word to use, what I meant was he hasn't got an excellent resume, considering his talent and dominance.

[IMDAZED]

Maybe weak is the wrong word to use, what I meant was he hasn't got an excellent resume, considering his talent and dominance.

His resume looks pretty excellent to me - one of the best in recent times.

[andrewcuff]

His resume looks pretty excellent to me - one of the best in recent times.

How so...?

[KiloTeague]

Ok i apologize for the dum mfs like you comment. But check this.

You say look at all of Toneys other fights. Well he wasn't fighting Roy. Everyone looks different when there fighting someone like Roy. You couldn't even see his punches coming. People would immediately be intimidated by punches you couldn't see or block

Secondly. about Bernard. His toughness is what made him a beast. He was unbeatable before Roy got to him. He may have gotten more expiereince later, and may have improved later, but so did Roy. So much he went up and dominated two more weight classes while Bernard stayed at 160 and dominated. Roy became much better than he was for the Bernard fight.

And Bernards best chance was to try and smother Roy. His style now works great for Tito and Pavlick, but not great for Calzaghe who can move, and a Prime Roy would have picked this Bernard apart with his current style. The only way to have any chance against Prime Roy was to smother him and not let him punch. And Bernard did that as best he could. It KO'd other fighters but against The man, it just got him Roys closest fight.

And again, even though Bernard improved later. He was still the 2nd best middlewieght and even 2nd best fighter in the game at the current time. So when Roy beat Hopkins, he still dominated a top 5 middleweight of all time. Bernard was crushing middleweights before Roy, and after Roy. FAct. How good he was before and after is a matter of opinion, but he never got the credit he deserved until he beat Trinidad, and by then he was already out of his prime and not as strong, energetic or as dominant as he was when he fought Roy.

[TheGreatA]

Where would you rank him?

I don't have an official ATG list. I'd say that I do not rank him as highly as most people do.

[Chunk..]

I understand Roy had reasons for some of the fights listed above, but is still doesn't change the fact that his resume is pretty weak, which is why I have him 40-50 ATG because of his skills, dominance and HW title.

Both Toney & Hopkins deserved a rematch though. Toney was badly weight drained and out-of-sorts, whereas Hopkins was too inexperienced. Thoughts?

That's a matter of opinion! Roy was about as experienced as Hopkins was when they fought. Roy won that fight clearly and was willing to rematch at 60-40 which is fair, but Hopkins was too proud to take the lesser share.

Hopkins fault! Not Roy's.

What weight would a rematch with Toney be at? LHW?

You think 7lbs difference would help Toney in a rematch! That's clutching at straws really! Roy beat Toney with ease!

[IMDAZED]

How so...?

How not? He has amazing depth on his resume and one, perhaps two ATG's in their 20's as well. Jones' resume is what makes him who he is.

[andrewcuff]

Ok i apologize for the dum mfs like you comment. But check this.

You say look at all of Toneys other fights. Well he wasn't fighting Roy. Everyone looks different when there fighting someone like Roy. You couldn't even see his punches coming. People would immediately be intimidated by punches you couldn't see or block

Secondly. about Bernard. His toughness is what made him a beast. He was unbeatable before Roy got to him. He may have gotten more expiereince later, and may have improved later, but so did Roy. So much he went up and dominated two more weight classes while Bernard stayed at 160 and dominated. Roy became much better than he was for the Bernard fight.

And Bernards best chance was to try and smother Roy. His style now works great for Tito and Pavlick, but not great for Calzaghe who can move, and a Prime Roy would have picked this Bernard apart with his current style. The only way to have any chance against Prime Roy was to smother him and not let him punch. And Bernard did that as best he could. It KO'd other fighters but against The man, it just got him Roys closest fight.

And again, even though Bernard improved later. He was still the 2nd best middlewieght and even 2nd best fighter in the game at the current time. So when Roy beat Hopkins, he still dominated a top 5 middleweight of all time. Bernard was crushing middleweights before Roy, and after Roy. FAct. How good he was before and after is a matter of opinion, but he never got the credit he deserved until he beat Trinidad, and by then he was already out of his prime and not as strong, energetic or as dominant as he was when he fought Roy.

Good post. I'm not saying Roy would have lost to Toney/B-Hop under different circumstances because it would be difficult to bet against a prime Roy, but that when Roy fought them they were not at their best.

[TheGreatA]

That's a matter of opinion! Roy was about as experienced as Hopkins was when they fought. Roy won that fight clearly and was willing to rematch at 60-40 which is fair, but Hopkins was too proud to take the lesser share.

Hopkins fault! Not Roy's.

What weight would a rematch with Toney be at? LHW?

You think 7lbs difference would help Toney in a rematch! That's clutching at straws really! Roy beat Toney with ease!

Roy was without a doubt a lot more experienced than Hopkins was. He had a great amateur career and had already beaten a couple of top class fighters before facing Hopkins.

Hopkins, who had been active as a pro for 3 years with no notable amateur background, had only fought popular but limited journeymen up until he faced Roy. He wasn't unbeatable at that point of his career either (as another poster said) because he had lost his first fight and went onto struggle to a draw with Segundo Mercado.