Where Does Roy Jones Jr Rank Amongst the ATGs?

[Chunk..]

Who did prime Roy beat that warrants a Top 10 place though?

Who was around him that he didn't beat in his prime?

Michalczewski.
Prime Calzaghe.
Benn.
Collins.

The only win there that gets him any credit is Calzaghe. The rest, he wouldn't IMO. Roy beat the guy who took Michalczewski '0'.

[andrewcuff]

Who was around him that he didn't beat in his prime?

Michalczewski.
Prime Calzaghe.
Benn.
Collins.

The onlt win there that gets him any credit is Calzaghe. The rest, he wouldn't IMO. Roy beat the guy who took Michalczewski '0'.

I'm not trying to discredit Roy here, but his resume is pretty weak when you consider he's a 4-weight world champion and completely dominated boxing for years!

He showed no interest in fighting Calzaghe, declined a unification with Michalczewski, refused to fight Benn even though Nigel offered to give Jones his entire purse and turned down rematches with both B-Hop/Toney.

[Chunk..]

I'm not trying to discredit Roy here, but his resume is pretty weak when you consider he's a 4-weight world champion and completely dominated boxing for years!

He showed no interest in fighting Calzaghe, declined a unification with Michalczewski, refused to fight Benn even though Nigel offered to give Jones his entire purse and turned down rematches with both B-Hop/Toney.

Calzaghe was hardly rushing on a plane to America to fight Roy either. Unless he got paid the 'crown ***els'.

Michalczewski people wanted the fight in Germany. Roy wanted it in a America. Roy was P4P#1! Michalczewski should have got his passport out, but he didn't!

The Benn fight in honestly, i don't know why Roy turned that one away? He would get about as much credit for beating Benn as he did beating Virgil Hill.

As for Toney/Hopkins rematches, what did either of those two guys do in the first fights to warrant a rematch?

Jmaes Toney fight scorecards - John Stewart 119-108 | judge: Jerry Roth 118-109 | judge: Glen Hamada 117-110

Bernard Hopkins fight scorecards - Al DeVito 116-112 | judge: Eugene Grant 116-112 | judge: Lynne Carter 116-112

Neither fight was close, Roy was the clear winner in both! And just for the record, Hopkins wasn't worth 50-50 against Roy! Hopkins ****ed that fight from happening not Roy!

[andrewcuff]

Calzaghe was hardly rushing on a plane to America to fight Roy either. Unless he got paid the 'crown ***els'.

Michalczewski people wanted the fight in Germany. Roy wanted it in a America. Roy was P4P#1! Michalczewski should have got his passport out, but he didn't!

The Benn fight in honestly, i don't know why Roy turned that one away? He would get about as much credit for beating Benn as he did beating Virgil Hill.

As for Toney/Hopkins rematches, what did either of those two guys do in the first fights to warrant a rematch?

Jmaes Toney fight scorecards - John Stewart 119-108 | judge: Jerry Roth 118-109 | judge: Glen Hamada 117-110

Bernard Hopkins fight scorecards - Al DeVito 116-112 | judge: Eugene Grant 116-112 | judge: Lynne Carter 116-112

Neither fight was close, Roy was the clear winner in both! And just for the record, Hopkins wasn't worth 50-50 against Roy! Hopkins ****ed that fight from happening not Roy!

I understand Roy had reasons for some of the fights listed above, but is still doesn't change the fact that his resume is pretty weak, which is why I have him 40-50 ATG because of his skills, dominance and HW title.

Both Toney & Hopkins deserved a rematch though. Toney was badly weight drained and out-of-sorts, whereas Hopkins was too inexperienced. Thoughts?

[KiloTeague]

Who did prime Roy beat that warrants a Top 10 place though?

-A Heavy weight=

Never been done in a 100 years. = Thats a good reason to think he's one of the best ever, because no matter how crappy the heavy weight champ was, no other middleweight has been able to do it.

Dominate Toney= Weight Drained? He was pfp #1 0r #2 at the time and had been the 168 lb champ for years. He was unbeatable at 168 and now weight drained? Its dumb --- mfs like you who make up this weight drained ish to tarnis Roy. When the fact is no other person on the planet could of beaten Toney, and Roy humilitated him.

Beat Hopkins. Hopkins was also undefeated at 160 and he was beating people up badly. However inexpieriencec he was, he'd had more pro fights than Roy, and he was alos unbeatable at 160 as you will see Roy was in only loss at 160 until he turned 40 and lost to jermaine Taylor.

I really don't think any man alive can say he dominated two hall of famers on the level of Bernard and Toney. Bernard was 27 when they fought. He would of Kod Pavlick in 4 rounds, instead of having to circle him, and outbox him.

Many of you just don't know how much of an animal Bernard was. He is a shell of himself right now and still killing these weak boxers of today. And its more than obvious some of you have only been watching boxing for the last 4 years. Watch Roy Jones of the 90's. He won fighter of that decade. He was the most dominat fighter of that decade so go watch that and then get at me.

[KiloTeague]

And if weight drained is your excuse, Roy's excuse of turning 35 and loosing is better. Age is the only thing that ever beat Roy Jones. That is the only thing that could of stopped him. He was completely untouchable in his prime. Noone has ever been that dominant. Thats what I go by. I go by the film and by the dominance of the best in each era. Prime Roy was the most dominat fighter ever. Period.

[andrewcuff]

-A Heavy weight=

Never been done in a 100 years. = Thats a good reason to think he's one of the best ever, because no matter how crappy the heavy weight champ was, no other middleweight has been able to do it.

Dominate Toney= Weight Drained? He was pfp #1 0r #2 at the time and had been the 168 lb champ for years. He was unbeatable at 168 and now weight drained? Its dumb --- mfs like you who make up this weight drained ish to tarnis Roy. When the fact is no other person on the planet could of beaten Toney, and Roy humilitated him.

Beat Hopkins. Hopkins was also undefeated at 160 and he was beating people up badly. However inexpieriencec he was, he'd had more pro fights than Roy, and he was alos unbeatable at 160 as you will see Roy was in only loss at 160 until he turned 40 and lost to jermaine Taylor.

I really don't think any man alive can say he dominated two hall of famers on the level of Bernard and Toney. Bernard was 27 when they fought. He would of Kod Calzaghe now, instead of having to circle him, and outbox him.

Many of you just don't know how much of an animal Bernard was. He is a shell of himself right now and still killing these weak boxers of today.

#1 I give Roy Jones serious credit for his HW title, that is damn impressive.

#2 Dumb m --- mfs like me? Toney had to lose 47lbs in 6 weeks. Watch his performance in that fight and then compare it to fights where he hasn't had to lose anywhere near that amount to make weight. Big difference. He was weight-drained, and badly so. If Roy could dominate Toney any time, why did he refuse a rematch, huh?

#3 The 1994 Hopkins was not the complete fighter he was a few years later. He started boxing very late on whereas Roy had already had a successful amateur career.

[andrewcuff]

And if weight drained is your excuse, Roy's excuse of turning 35 and loosing is better. Age is the only thing that ever beat Roy Jones. That is the only thing that could of stopped him. He was completely untouchable in his prime. Noone has ever been that dominant. Thats what I go by. I go by the film and by the dominance of the best in each era. Prime Roy was the most dominat fighter ever. Period.

Weight drained isn't an excuse. Toney's problems making weight are well publicised. This wasn't something that only came out after the Jones fight.

I'll re-clarify my original point. ATGs are normally judged a lot on resume, which is the weakest part of Roy Jones. But the guy was incredibly talented and dominated in his prime, so where would you rank him?

ATGs should be graded on skill and resume, which makes is difficult to find a ranking that most would agree on for Roy. I have him somewhere 40-50, although a bit higher wouldn't be out of the question.

[IMDAZED]

10-25.

Resume weak? Geez, what does that say for nearly every other fighter of the past 20 years?

[TheGreatA]

-A Heavy weight=

Never been done in a 100 years. = Thats a good reason to think he's one of the best ever, because no matter how crappy the heavy weight champ was, no other middleweight has been able to do it.

Dominate Toney= Weight Drained? He was pfp #1 0r #2 at the time and had been the 168 lb champ for years. He was unbeatable at 168 and now weight drained? Its dumb --- mfs like you who make up this weight drained ish to tarnis Roy. When the fact is no other person on the planet could of beaten Toney, and Roy humilitated him.

Beat Hopkins. Hopkins was also undefeated at 160 and he was beating people up badly. However inexpieriencec he was, he'd had more pro fights than Roy, and he was alos unbeatable at 160 as you will see Roy was in only loss at 160 until he turned 40 and lost to jermaine Taylor.

I really don't think any man alive can say he dominated two hall of famers on the level of Bernard and Toney. Bernard was 27 when they fought. He would of Kod Pavlick in 4 rounds, instead of having to circle him, and outbox him.

Many of you just don't know how much of an animal Bernard was. He is a shell of himself right now and still killing these weak boxers of today. And its more than obvious some of you have only been watching boxing for the last 4 years. Watch Roy Jones of the 90's. He won fighter of that decade. He was the most dominat fighter of that decade so go watch that and then get at me.

Many former middleweights have been able to win a heavyweight title. No former middleweight champion had done it since Bob Fitzsimmons however, although Toney repeated the same feat against the same champion shortly after Jones did it.

It's not a victory that would get Jones a top 10 ranking, in my opinion.

Montell Griffin beat Toney 3 months after Jones.