Does Floyd Mayweather Jr. crack the top 50 ATG list?

[a-raines21]

Your post clearly stated that you grade your ATG lists on skill...like P4P lists...in which case Floyd is Top 5. Maybe you meant something else, but your post implied that Floyd can be called a Top 5 ATG when only considering skill, which is not the case.

Also, why would Tyson beat Joe Louis. It always seems that the people who claim old timers are overrated are generally the ones making a case for a current/recently retired fighter to be made Top 30 ATG or thereabouts.

I agree, some old timers do get overrated slightly. But Joe Louis had achieved a lot in his day, had ferocious punching power...and Tyson was sparked in his prime. I'm sorry, but you just can't seriously make the case that Tyson is better ATG than Joe Louis. Maybe on technical ability alone, but that doesn't automatically put you higher AT.

well thats y i dont agree with most atg lists.....

floyd has the best +/- radio in all of the sport...... how is whitaker a better defensive fighter?

oscar was not THE champ in all of these weight classes...... remember 160?
floyd however, was The champ in 5 different weight classes, and that is what makes him better

[andrewcuff]

well thats y i dont agree with most atg lists.....

floyd has the best +/- radio in all of the sport...... how is whitaker a better defensive fighter?

oscar was not THE champ in all of these weight classes...... remember 160?
floyd however, was The champ in 5 different weight classes, and that is what makes him better

Since compubox began, not in all of the sport.

Anyways, the +/- ratio doesn't mean you have a better defense. Lets look at an exaggerated example:

Fighter A lands 100% of his punches and gets hit with 50% of opponents punches. +/- ratio = 2;

Fighter B lands 15% of punches and gets hit with 10% of opponents punches. +/- ration = 1.5

Is fighter A a better defensive fighter because his ratio is higher? Not in this case.

You only have to watch Pernell against great opposition to see that the man was unbelievable.

[Ishy Aytan]

The old mantra of Floyd coulda, Floyd woulda, doesn't wash when talking ATG. Beating Cotto, Margarito and Williams would have shown that he could carry his skills into higher weight classes against the best of that particular division.

And don't put words into my mouth, I didn't criticize all of his opponents. I actually said his early wins were very important, so let's not get defensive here when I don't fall head over heels in love with your fighter, eh?



Btw, Floyd winning Fighter of the Decade would sum up for me everything that is wrong with boxing. The man retires in his prime when there are some good challenges out there and he gets rewarded? No wonder UFC is so popular! Hopkins should win hands down. Skills, achievements, dominance. Don't forget the man started the decade at 36 years old and since then he's beaten Trinidad, De La Hoya, Tarver, Winky, Pavlik and dropped v.close decisions to Taylor and Calzaghe. Trumps Floyd's achievements.

Yeh because Floyds been tagging behind Hopkins all these years in p4p greatness. As much as i love Hopkins, Floyd is clearly the best fighter of the last decade. He dominated the last 6 years in boxing.

Guys like yourself will never give Floyd the credit he deserves. This is the problem with boxing today. The greatest fighters never get the greatest respect.

Beating Cotto, Margarito and Williams will not add as much to his legacy than him beating Pacquiao. These guys are seriously overrated in testing Floyds ability. He beats them all hands down. Pacquiao is the biggest threat.

[boojee]

i voted wrong, i meant to click YES. Floyd is #1 ATG

[Ishy Aytan]

Watch Pernell in his prime. Untouchable! Wilfred Benitez was better defensively too, as was Pep.

Most of Peps fights are not even on video but ive heard he was a great defensive fighter.

Benitiez was good but not on par with Floyd. Pernell was great defensively but much was because of his reflexes. He ducked a lot of shots based on his reflexes rather than his defensive ability.

This is why Floyd is the best defensive fighter out of the two.

[Ishy Aytan]

i voted wrong, i meant to click YES. Floyd is #1 ATG

We dont need your nuthugging on this thread. This is a serious discussion.

[andrewcuff]

Yeh because Floyds been tagging behind Hopkins all these years in p4p greatness. As much as i love Hopkins, Floyd is clearly the best fighter of the last decade. He dominated the last 6 years in boxing.

Guys like yourself will never give Floyd the credit he deserves. This is the problem with boxing today. The greatest fighters never get the greatest respect.

Beating Cotto, Margarito and Williams will not add as much to his legacy than him beating Pacquiao. These guys are seriously overrated in testing Floyds ability. He beats them all hands down. Pacquiao is the biggest threat.

What opposition has Floyd beat since 2002 that make him so much greater than Hopkins?

Floyd most likely would humiliate Margarito. The guy has no real boxing ability. But Cotto and Williams would give him a lot of trouble. Floyd is less effective against a good jabber/body puncher which is why Cotto would trouble him and Williams would just be awkward because of huge reach advantage. If Floyd had the offense of Ray Leonard then it wouldn't be so much of an issue, but when you are potshotting against a WW with a bigger reach than Ali, it is.

I think the P4P list is overrated as well. For example, beating Pacquiao is much more impressive because he's P4P #1?! How is beating a smaller guy more impressive than beating a larger guy (the bigger guys in this case are elite level fighters). Surely they should be placed on the same level, for different reasons?

Lastly, read my previous posts. I've always said Floyd is skilled. There's no doubt that the man has talent in abundance. But he falls short on a lot of people's ATG lists because of an apparent lack of interest in dangerous fighters.

[andrewcuff]

Most of Peps fights are not even on video but ive heard he was a great defensive fighter.

Benitiez was good but not on par with Floyd. Pernell was great defensively but much was because of his reflexes. He ducked a lot of shots based on his reflexes rather than his defensive ability.

This is why Floyd is the best defensive fighter out of the two.

That might be a construed as nuthugging there. Which of Benitez's fights have you seen? The mans defence was amazing, better than Floyds. They didn't call him the radar for no reason. Even Ray Leonard praised his defence, once claiming Benitez knew what was coming before Leonard threw his punch (es). If one of the best offensive fighters of all time gives praise like this, you know they are very good.

Also, ducking shots using reflexes isn't defensive ability? Huh? Ducking and slipping are the core of a good defence.

[strugler]

Sad thing about floyd is he really could have given us more, I know its his decision and all but if you want to be considerd the "greatest" he should have known how long and tideous work it would have been. He can back his talk for sure but i dont think he backed it enough imo.

[a-raines21]

What opposition has Floyd beat since 2002 that make him so much greater than Hopkins?

Floyd most likely would humiliate Margarito. The guy has no real boxing ability. But Cotto and Williams would give him a lot of trouble. Floyd is less effective against a good jabber/body puncher which is why Cotto would trouble him and Williams would just be awkward because of huge reach advantage. If Floyd had the offense of Ray Leonard then it wouldn't be so much of an issue, but when you are potshotting against a WW with a bigger reach than Ali, it is.

I think the P4P list is overrated as well. For example, beating Pacquiao is much more impressive because he's P4P #1?! How is beating a smaller guy more impressive than beating a larger guy (the bigger guys in this case are elite level fighters). Surely they should be placed on the same level, for different reasons?

Lastly, read my previous posts. I've always said Floyd is skilled. There's no doubt that the man has talent in abundance. But he falls short on a lot of people's ATG lists because of an apparent lack of interest in dangerous fighters.

floyd get hit on average less than 10 times per round... hes never been dropped, never been in serious danger, and has never lost or drawed...... pernell lost to both trinidad and dlh...... thats not top 10 atg material, seeing as neither one of them are top 50 atgs..... the fact of the matter is, statistically floyd is a superior fighter..... sweet pea was fun to watch, but he was not better than floyd mayweather.