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virgil hill
Both 40ish/2, both former belt holders, both at the end of their prime, both beaten easily.
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how is a 34 year old Virgil Hill any different to a 31 year old Chris Eubank?
Both 40ish/2, both former belt holders, both at the end of their prime, both beaten easily. -
being old in itself does not mean anything.
for instance hopkins was 43 but seeing what he did after the joe fight (pavlik) makes it a great win for joe because it showed that hopkins still had a lot left. past prime and old certainly but hopkins was still a quality fighter.
roy on the other hand will probably not accomplish anymore after joe and in fact hasn't done anything in a years. unlike bernard who was still winning quality fights before and after he fought joe.
hence why i consider bernard a great win for joe and roy not even though bernard is older than roy.
so if you look at virgil hill and chris eubank......virgil went on to win a few fights after roy beat him and even went to capture the wba cruiserweight belt after he lost to roy. eubank on the other never won another fight after losing to joe.Comment
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No, he would not have lost to McCallum, or Hill. Not at the same time that Jones fought them anyway. McCallum was completely done as an elite fighter by that stage and Hill was also past it. He had also just come off a wide loss to Michalzcweski before fighting Jones. His losing steak started with Darius. Calzaghe would have beaten them both I think.
He would have had the most trouble with Toney. I don't know why we're talking about Hopkins really because Calzaghe never fought at MW, so we really don't have a clue what he would have looked like there. One can only imagine that he would have been a bigger, more powerful, faster version of the one he was at SMW, wihch means he would have probably beaten B-Hop at the time Jones fought him also. I think he would have lost to Hop around the Tito time, when Hops had everything down to perfection. Stamina, aggression, defense etc. I take into account the SMW - LHW Jones fights most because Calzaghe was always SMW and only just moved to LHW so it's hard to say what he would have been like below or above that. I don't think he would have transitioned as well as Jones did though at all across the weights. He could have been a good MW, but I don't know, like Toney he may have been weight drained there. I don't think he would ever do well at HW though.
I honestly believe that even the Toney that Jones fought would have struggled with Calzaghe. We saw that if Toney was not one hundred % he could be out-boxed, and I think at that stage, Calzaghe could have out-boxed him. Very close fight, which could have gone either way. At their best, Toney beats Calzaghe, but Calzaghe has never hit a low like Toney has and the Jones fight was not Toney at one hundred % and I believe that Calzonie could have taken advantage of that, darting in and out, using angles much as Jones did to win a decision.
Calzaghe could not have competed at Heavyweight though. Ruiz would have beaten him I think by sheer size alone and being able to smother him.
Calzaghe would have had most trouble with some of the LHW's, apart from the HW division of course, and that is where doubt comes in for me. I do think he would have beaten Hill and McCallum. I think he may have struggled with some of the guys though. Griffin at one hundred % could have been a hard fight and Tarver would have been a hard fight for him. It's mainly Tarver that I can decide on. I do think he could have beaten Johnson, but that also would have been a mighty struggle because when Jones fought him he had developed into a good, solid pressure fighter. I still don't think Johnson has the tools to beat him though.
We did see with the Hop and Jones fight that he can beat solid, and in Hop, great LHW's that few fighters could beat. Jones had recently beaten Hanshaw and Prince Adjshimushimumkns and did so convincingly, whereas Calzaghe beat the living daylight out of Jones, who had not looked as sharp in many fights, which tells me he would have handled solid contenders with ease. That also leads me to believe that a guy like Tarver could have also been beaten by Calzaghe. Hopkins showed that good movement and angles can put Tarver right off his game. Dawson showed that recently too. Calzaghe is very good at doing that.
I know that many here do not like the idea that Calzaghe may have been able to do all that unbeaten but I honestly believe he could have gone through Jones' MW - LHW resume unbeaten, I just don't think he could have beaten a heavyweight. Not the right body for it. Jones and Toney both muscle up very well and both handled Ruiz well, whereas I don't think Calzaghe could do much higher than LHW well. Wrong body type.
You know, I don't think Calzaghe would go through Toney's resume unbeaten. He caught McCallum at the tail end of his prime and that's when he could have given Calzaghe problems, but not when Jones fought him. Nunn, at the early MW stage could have given Calz problems as well, but again, Nunn showed that he was a bit Judah-esque. Johnson was good when Toney fought him, and I think the Jones that Toney fought would have beaten Calzaghe. At the least, I think Calzaghe would have lost to Jonesin a close fight. Probably the closest of Jones' career. He was not good against southpaws, and back then Calzaghe was a very good southpaw. I think he would have struggled at CW as well, like against Jirov.Last edited by BennyST; 11-13-2008, 06:17 AM.Comment
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True. If you look at who it was against though, then it comes to light that Hill was not exactly a great fighter still and was on the downward slide. He had lost to Michalwxzsaewi before Jones, then the Jones loss, then he won two fights against no one, along with third fight for the title which he won against Tiozzo, who was ok, but not great.
Tiozzo was knocked out in the first round by Hill! That in itself is very unusual seeing as though Hill was purely a boxer who worked off the jab. Tiozzo was hurt easily and that was a cruiser weight title as well. He didn't even defend it once.
He then lost it straight away when he failed to answer the bell against Mormeck. He lost another few fights after that before retiring. He was not the fighter he once was by the time he met Jones and was on the tail end of his career.Last edited by BennyST; 11-13-2008, 06:51 AM.Comment
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I think he beats B-Hop at that stage, remember this was the B-hop that ot KD'd twice by Mercado. I've always thought he could beat Toney IMO it all depends on Ruiz which IMO he loses to. Tarver and Johnson get beaten.Comment
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bumppppp for the morning audienceComment
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Toney at 168 and Ruiz for starters. Glen Johnson and Tarver circa 03-04 would've been mighty tough as well.
A good style match-up would've been prime Eric Harding vs. Calzaghe. That would've been fun.Comment
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the one i DEFINITELY cant see happening... is joe fighting at 198 pounds against someone 240, and trying to flurry... no way no how...
but could roy go thru joes resume undefeated..... ?
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