did Jones avoid the best fighters and fight so cautiously cause

[IMDAZED]

He considered it a big risk because he'd be fighting in Dariusz's backyard - which is what Germany amounted to in Kohl's headquarters.

Jones' paydays ranged from 2-5 mil per fight, barring the Tarver, Ruiz fights, etc - where he made considerably more. Essentially, he was asking for double what he normally got.

Kostya Tszyu got 5 mil for Hatton which was WAY more than he got paid for his average fights - which neighbored between 500-700k.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

He considered it a big risk because he'd be fighting in Dariusz's backyard - which is what Germany amounted to in Kohl's headquarters.

Jones' paydays ranged from 2-5 mil per fight, barring the Tarver, Ruiz fights, etc - where he made considerably more. Essentially, he was asking for double what he normally got.

Kostya Tszyu got 5 mil for Hatton which was WAY more than he got paid for his average fights - which neighbored between 500-700k.

The source I read didnt specify that Jones wanted 10m to fight in Germany. It just said he wanted 10m to fight Dariusz, full stop.

Couldnt comment on the Tszyu stuff, never seen any evidence

[Benny Leonard]

No. Common sense dictates. Like I told you, Benn, Eubank and Collins all fought in America, were all known to an American audience yet still couldnt get a fight with Jones. You didnt answer any of my points regarding that.

Tell me what Calzaghe's plan of action shouldve been. And I'll name several fighters that did the same to no avail.



Kostya was paid nowhere near $10m to fight Hatton. Let me get this straight, you're actually justifying Jones asking for $10m? You dont think thats pricing yourself out?




I highly doubt Roy was raking in $10m to fight Richard Frazier and David Telesco. Roy wanted to be significantly paid for what he saw as a huge risk. And its not "according to me". Roy broadcast his demands on German TV.

It depends: If Roy wanted 10 million to fight Dariusz in America, yeah, then that is a ***** move. If he wanted to take his chance on making the money he thought he could make, 10 million, then he would just have to make it PPV and whatever he was worth to the fans he would get.

If it was 10 million to go to Germany, then I have no problem with that in regards to Roy's issues of fighting overseas and being ripped off...even though for me, I think Roy should have went if it was say 7 million...or something just above his pay-grade since it would be a Mega-fight.
Dariusz would also have to make sure it was not only a good offer but at least 50/50 since if the split goes in Dariusz favor, you know Roy's ego will not allow that.

I'm not sure why they didn't get a fight with Roy Jones jr. or why the organizations didn't make Roy fight...I concede that. I'll have to look into it.

What's your reasoning? Sources would be good.

It took time for Lennox to get certain fights as well.

But many other fighters from foreign countries do get the fights they want.

Tszyu was successful here and I've always said he could have easily gotten into the mix at 147 when Shane, oscar, Tito, and Forrest were there...why he didn't...

Tszyu got his biggest payday fighting in England...which is why he took the fight. Tszyu wasn't also as popular in America or the World of boxing as Roy Jones Jr. nor was he getting paid like Roy, so of course he wasn't going to make what Roy wanted.

Do you know what Kostya's biggest payday was before Hatton as well as the amount after everything was tallied for their fight?

[IMDAZED]

He meant Germany - dig through your "sources" and you'll find it. Oh wait, no you won't lololol.

As for Tszyu making 500-700k, you don't need sources to tell you that - your common sense should tell you that.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

He meant Germany - dig through your "sources" and you'll find it. Oh wait, no you won't lololol.

"lololol". Nice.

Once again, this is one of those situations where I need not do anything. The source I posted earlier didnt specify that the fight had to be in Germany.

You are adament that he "meant" in Germany. If thats the case, then its down to you to provide evidence. Give it a go. Im not saying its wrong, just looking for clarification. Cheers.

As for Tszyu making 500-700k, you don't need sources to tell you that - your common sense should tell you that.

Why would common sense give you such a random figure? I dont doubt Tyszu was well paid for the Hatton fight. What the figure actually was and what he was actually making before is not exactly common knowledge. Once again, feel free to prove otherwise. Were you at the meetings or something? Have you proof read one of Tszyu's contracts?

Its seems that you think you know more than you actually do.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

It depends: If Roy wanted 10 million to fight Dariusz in America, yeah, then that is a ***** move. If he wanted to take his chance on making the money he thought he could make, 10 million, then he would just have to make it PPV and whatever he was worth to the fans he would get.

If it was 10 million to go to Germany, then I have no problem with that in regards to Roy's issues of fighting overseas and being ripped off...even though for me, I think Roy should have went if it was say 7 million...or something just above his pay-grade since it would be a Mega-fight.
Dariusz would also have to make sure it was not only a good offer but at least 50/50 since if the split goes in Dariusz favor, you know Roy's ego will not allow that.

I'm not sure why they didn't get a fight with Roy Jones jr. or why the organizations didn't make Roy fight...I concede that. I'll have to look into it.

What's your reasoning? Sources would be good.

It took time for Lennox to get certain fights as well.

But many other fighters from foreign countries do get the fights they want.

Tszyu was successful here and I've always said he could have easily gotten into the mix at 147 when Shane, oscar, Tito, and Forrest were there...why he didn't...

Tszyu got his biggest payday fighting in England...which is why he took the fight. Tszyu wasn't also as popular in America or the World of boxing as Roy Jones Jr. nor was he getting paid like Roy, so of course he wasn't going to make what Roy wanted.

Do you know what Kostya's biggest payday was before Hatton as well as the amount after everything was tallied for their fight?

If we're looking at it from a purely boxing standpoint, I've always thought that the challenger should go to the champion. And Dariusz was the lineal, unified, undefeated champion before Jones entered the division. For Jones to call himself the man, surely he has to go and take the title off the man.

I realise that Jones being the name, ppv draw etc etc means that it cant work that way. But logically, it should be the way things are.

I dont think the organisations could do anything. Roy was defending against mandatories like Woods and co to satisfy one sanctioning body. Dariusz was defending against WBO mandos.

You can make up as many excuses as you want, I think if Roy really wanted the fight, it would've happened. As is the case with many other potential fights.

As for the Tszyu stuff. Shane Mosely skipped over the entire 140lb division. Oscar bailed the division pretty quickly too. I think Tszyu, like Dariusz, was an unneccesary risk for a lot of those guys.

[bsrizpac]

He meant Germany - dig through your "sources" and you'll find it. Oh wait, no you won't lololol.

As for Tszyu making 500-700k, you don't need sources to tell you that - your common sense should tell you that.

I get this feeling that dude is Roy's biggest fan.

[Benny Leonard]

If we're looking at it from a purely boxing standpoint, I've always thought that the challenger should go to the champion. And Dariusz was the lineal, unified, undefeated champion before Jones entered the division. For Jones to call himself the man, surely he has to go and take the title off the man.

I realise that Jones being the name, ppv draw etc etc means that it cant work that way. But logically, it should be the way things are.

I dont think the organisations could do anything. Roy was defending against mandatories like Woods and co to satisfy one sanctioning body. Dariusz was defending against WBO mandos.

You can make up as many excuses as you want, I think if Roy really wanted the fight, it would've happened. As is the case with many other potential fights.

As for the Tszyu stuff. Shane Mosely skipped over the entire 140lb division. Oscar bailed the division pretty quickly too. I think Tszyu, like Dariusz, was an unneccesary risk for a lot of those guys.

Yes, I'm with you on that as well; you go where the lineal Champion is; however, that is not the case in a business. Even Tszyu went to Australia because that was where the opportunity was; that's where the money was. Then he saw America was the Money place and went there. And then of course England for Hatton.
Ali even discussed the topic of going wherever and whoever had the money...money dictates.

Money always dictated Roy's decision...it did for Dariusz as well...which is why he said he would come to America as long as he got his share, which he didn't specify. Somebody posted it up on boxingscene a while back.

It works both ways: Roy and Dariusz could have made the fight happen if they wanted to, but they didn't; money dictates and ego dictates.
If Dariusz wanted it so bad he could have came to America and fought Jones for free. This way, Roy would have his money since the millions that would have been given to D.M. would be in Roy's pocket.

Please, we all know why Shane skipped 140. Tszyu got his head bashed in by Vince Phillips so the fight between Tszyu and Oscar was cancelled. Oscar moved up to 147 and Shane went for the GOLD.
It's kind of hard to say Shane avoided Tszyu when everybody knows Shane Mosley went after the best: he went after Oscar, Forrest, Winky...
Oscar went after Tito, fought Shane, and Hopkins.

Tszyu: one of my favorite fighters, a very good fighter, but never stepped up to face the elites like Shane, Oscar, Tito and Forrest. He lost to Phillips.

The other thing with both fighters, Shane and Oscar, both struggled to make lightweight and thought 5 pounds wasn't going to cut it so they moved right up to a healthier weight...147. They were there, Tszyu stayed at 140. The Money and Legacy fights were at 147.

And tell me this, why didn't Kostya move up to 147 to challenge Shane, Oscar, Tito, and Forrest?

[Chase8400]

Yes, I'm with you on that as well; you go where the lineal Champion is; however, that is not the case in a business. Even Tszyu went to Australia because that was where the opportunity was; that's where the money was. Then he saw America was the Money place and went there. And then of course England for Hatton.
Ali even discussed the topic of going wherever and whoever had the money...money dictates.

Money always dictated Roy's decision...it did for Dariusz as well...which is why he said he would come to America as long as he got his share, which he didn't specify. Somebody posted it up on boxingscene a while back.

It works both ways: Roy and Dariusz could have made the fight happen if they wanted to, but they didn't; money dictates and ego dictates.
If Dariusz wanted it so bad he could have came to America and fought Jones for free. This way, Roy would have his money since the millions that would have been given to D.M. would be in Roy's pocket.

Please, we all know why Shane skipped 140. Tszyu got his head bashed in by Vince Phillips so the fight between Tszyu and Oscar was cancelled. Oscar moved up to 147 and Shane went for the GOLD.
It's kind of hard to say Shane avoided Tszyu when everybody knows Shane Mosley went after the best: he went after Oscar, Forrest, Winky...
Oscar went after Tito, fought Shane, and Hopkins.

Tszyu: one of my favorite fighters, a very good fighter, but never stepped up to face the elites like Shane, Oscar, Tito and Forrest. He lost to Phillips.

The other thing with both fighters, Shane and Oscar, both struggled to make lightweight and thought 5 pounds wasn't going to cut it so they moved right up to a healthier weight...147. They were there, Tszyu stayed at 140. The Money and Legacy fights were at 147.

And tell me this, why didn't Kostya move up to 147 to challenge Shane, Oscar, Tito, and Forrest?

Don't matter any way you look at it. DM was never a lineal champ @ LHW. He was never even unified longer than a fight or two. Hell, he never even fought outside of Germany/Europe and fought mostly cream-puffs. Jones was ranked higher and the money draw during his entire stay @ LHW. You go to the champ and the money maker. Dariusz did'nt come over therefore, he would be at more fault than Roy for the fight not happening.

For proof and to witness a schooling, see my post right after this one.

[Chase8400]

Thread ender

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler UK
Hey

I had enough fun stringing you along and embarrassing you so here it is.

Ring Ranking published a month before Hopkins fought Jones:

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.ph..._Ratings:_1992

As you can see Hopkins is way down in 9th.

Thanks for the laughs. I thought Id send you that in private to give you a chance to apologise and admit you were wrong on the actual thread.

Whenever you're ready.

My Reply:
Well, I'll break my word since this in private. Once anyways.

This was a ranking from the end of 1992, and there were allot of fights from then until the fight that happened in may,including the ones that B-hop and Jones both had that year before they fought and the one 2 weeks earlier between McClellan and Jackson.
By then the rankings would have changed up quite a bit, so this is not a valid ranking for may since rankings were updated monthly then and weekly now. Sorry to bust that bubble.

Since we are on this rankings kick, etc. I figured I would point out something to you as well. Dariusz Michalczewski was never ranked above Rjj after Jones moved up to LHW nor was he ever the lineal champion. Interesting huh? Would that not make it Jones' right to have the fight in the USA? Would it not be more fair to say the DM avoided coming to the US to fight Jones and not the other way around?

Again, this is all from the rankings that you provided as your proof, yourself.

Do us both a favor and don't bother writing me again. I don't fancy speaking to you any longer and could not care less about what you have to say.