Double Standards? Haye needs a fight before Klitschko? But Pavlik Doesn't before Joe?

[badboypeenoy]

Now the general consensus here on this board is that David Haye needs a fight at HW before getting a shot at the title against Wladimir Klitschko. Its also important to note that the HW division, is a close 2nd, for the worst division in boxing only behind LMW. (Minimumweight is strong, just not many fans).

Yet Kelly Pavlik doesn't need a fight to get a shot at Calzaghe? And SMW, in contrast, is a lot stronger then HW. It is deep with talent, compared to HW and the MW divisions. The strength of the SMW division means, Pavlik should have more reasons to have a fight before getting a shot at the champ in Calzaghe?

Also when comparing David Haye and Pavlik? With their resume? Its rather similar. Pavlik has beat the top dog twice! And Haye has beaten 2 of the top dogs at cruiser?

Now correct me if im wrong. I admit i get way to opinonated at times. But this is just double standards!

Pavlik>>>>>>>>>>>>Haye

[Clegg]

Great post--You can't compare some one moving up to the HW division.

Pac and JMM move up to lightweight and get immediate shots at the title.

This is why it was such a huge accomplishment for RJJ and James Toney to come from the MW division and take HW titles. Heavyweight boxers are usually just built for that division and any one moving up may not belong there.

James Toney? No, he's never won a heavyweight title, unless you count the time that he cheated? Which you shouldn't because the result is officially a NC.

[Clegg]

Now the general consensus here on this board is that David Haye needs a fight at HW before getting a shot at the title against Wladimir Klitschko. Its also important to note that the HW division, is a close 2nd, for the worst division in boxing only behind LMW. (Minimumweight is strong, just not many fans).

Yet Kelly Pavlik doesn't need a fight to get a shot at Calzaghe? And SMW, in contrast, is a lot stronger then HW. It is deep with talent, compared to HW and the MW divisions. The strength of the SMW division means, Pavlik should have more reasons to have a fight before getting a shot at the champ in Calzaghe?

Also when comparing David Haye and Pavlik? With their resume? Its rather similar. Pavlik has beat the top dog twice! And Haye has beaten 2 of the top dogs at cruiser?

Now correct me if im wrong. I admit i get way to opinonated at times. But this is just double standards!

You raise an interesting point and I think it's a valid subject for discussion, but I disagree.

Haye has proven himself as the best at CW, but there are HWs who have earned the right to be rated above him. People like Sam Peter, Povetkin, Valuev and Chagaev (if he is ever healthy) have proven more than Haye so far.

Pavlik may not have a fantastic resume, but his win over Taylor put him above anyone at MW or SMW IMO. I don't believe in triangle theory, but Pavlik beat Taylor, who beat Hopkins, who beat Tarver and Wright. So with those two ruled out, Dawson is the only other guy who, it can be argued, deserves a shot at Calzaghe.

I think Pavlik has proven more than Dawson, but it's debatable. If Dawson was on HBO, and Pavlik on Showtime, would they be rated in the same way they are now? Not in my opinion.

I think that part of it is that Wlad is fighting Povetkin (tough fight against an unbeaten mandatory) whereas Calzaghe is facing Jones, who is years past his best. If Calzaghe was facing Dawson, and Wlad was facing Rahman, then I think you would have more of a point.

[bsrizpac]

You say he beat Hopkins on work rate like that is some kind of accomplishment. That's probably the least decisive way to show off "a massively complete fighter."

At the end of the day: Lacy and Kessler.

Ouch. That was ugly.

[roundingace]

Why does Pavlik get a free shot at Joe then?

Because Calzaghe said he wanted to fight him. What more do you need?

[bsrizpac]

Because Calzaghe said he wanted to fight him. What more do you need?

Dirk is not very bright. Expect a biased War and Peace sized paragraph making all sorts of excuses for Joe, or ignoring that Joe ever said that.

[roundingace]

Dirk is not very bright. Expect a biased War and Peace sized paragraph making all sorts of excuses for Joe, or ignoring that Joe ever said that.

I'm well aware. I've run into this douchebag on many JC threads.

[-Swizzy-]

Now the general consensus here on this board is that David Haye needs a fight at HW before getting a shot at the title against Wladimir Klitschko. Its also important to note that the HW division, is a close 2nd, for the worst division in boxing only behind LMW. (Minimumweight is strong, just not many fans).

Yet Kelly Pavlik doesn't need a fight to get a shot at Calzaghe? And SMW, in contrast, is a lot stronger then HW. It is deep with talent, compared to HW and the MW divisions. The strength of the SMW division means, Pavlik should have more reasons to have a fight before getting a shot at the champ in Calzaghe?

Also when comparing David Haye and Pavlik? With their resume? Its rather similar. Pavlik has beat the top dog twice! And Haye has beaten 2 of the top dogs at cruiser?

Now correct me if im wrong. I admit i get way to opinonated at times. But this is just double standards!

cruiser to hw isn't the same as mw to smw or even lhw. Pavlik will generally be fighting guys that are for the most part the same height, reach and speed of the mw division. Its really not a drastic of a change. cw to hw on the other hand is the biggest jump between 2 side-by-side divisions. The power, speed and size difference is much greater than mw to smw. Its basically like haye jumping 5+ divisions. Kinda like if Calderon were to go from strawweight straight to ww. Haye really does need atleast 1 fight to get ready for wlad if not more.

[bsrizpac]

cruiser to hw isn't the same as mw to smw or even lhw. Pavlik will generally be fighting guys that are for the most part the same height, reach and speed of the mw division. Its really not a drastic of a change. cw to hw on the other hand is the biggest jump between 2 side-by-side divisions. The power, speed and size difference is much greater than mw to smw. Its basically like haye jumping 5+ divisions. Kinda like if Calderon were to go from strawweight straight to ww. Haye really does need atleast 1 fight to get ready for wlad if not more.

Hey now! i think you missed the point. The OP is saying that JOE is a puncher to fear just like Wlad. Pavlik would be wise to stay clear of a guy so far north of his weight and such a HUGE KO artist like Wlad II- I mean Joe.

[-Swizzy-]

I'm well aware. I've run into this douchebag on many JC threads.

you picked the perfect word to describe him.