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The MMA Walls are Closing in on Boxing

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  • #71
    Problems With Boxing

    There are numerous problems with Boxing that have helped put the sport on ice.

    * The best fights don't happen - In today's boxing world ducking and handpicking are as certain and common as death and taxes. The majority of fighters and promoters only make fights with fighters they believe they can beat and continually make excuses as to why their guy can't fight so and so. It's more about making the money now than it is about putting forth effort and fighting.

    Example - Pavlik Vs. Hopkins: Why is an undefeated Middleweight Champion fighting a fighter who's time passed a long time ago? Furthermore why is a champion fighting someone who's coming off a loss? With numerous opponents like Aurthur Abraham and Joe Calzaghe who are champions either in their own right or literally why wasn't a fight made with a more prevalent fighter? While Hopkins is indeed a legend it's a true shame that he was chosen as Pavlik's next opponent when there is much younger and more exciting/dangerous opponents out there.

    * Mismatches Galore - This ties in with the best fights never happening. Mismatches pitting the very young against the very old, or the talented against the less than talented runs rampant in today's boxing. I blame the fighters and well as their promoters for mismatches and it's clear that so long as fighters are allowed to make money their first and only goal mismatches will certainly keep happening. Even hardcore fight fans have a hard time justifying and watching these types of fights.

    Example - De La Hoya Vs. Pacquiao: Even though Oscar is riding the coattails of his own career Oscars face and name will allow this fight to make a ton of money. Though there are some fans who have justified this fight to themselves and for the sport it's a bad fight. A fight like this is better left in the realm of fantasy fights. In this fight both men are after one thing...money, when they should be, as boxers, after the best possible challenge instead. Pacman may well pull off an upset however that's unlikely as it's clear Oscar picked a fighter whom he believes he can beat without to much trouble. Oscar wants one last big payday and wants to go out with a win, regardless of how people perceive him or his legacy. This type of fight is bad for boxing and demonstrates just how much control money has over the sport.

    * The Fighters - The majority of today's boxers, with the exception of a very few talented and hungry competitors enjoy playing it safe in the ring and are content just going for the decision. While a knockouts aren't necessary in a great fights, many of today's fights are mired by fighters who are overly cautious, don't take risks, don't go for the finish, and simply want to win on the scorecards. As many of us know some of the greatest fights in history are fights that have gone the distance but those fights had knockdown's, bloodied fighters, and passionate performance where both men let their hands go and came out swinging in each round. These types of fights and performances are rare in today's boxing world. Overly cautious fighters and fighters who either lack power or choose not to use it are bad for the sport. The danger and threat of a possible knockout is what attracts many people to boxing. Knowing that a fight is likely going to go the distance because there's no possibility of a KO is hard even for hardcore fans to swallow sometimes. It's a major turnoff however to casual fans or those curious about the sport.

    * Lack of Commitment - Many fighters, especially those of the heavyweight persuasion show up to fights out of shape and turn in performances that reflect their lack of conditioning. A casual viewer or someone who's curious about the sport is turned off by watching one or two bloated men plod around the ring huffing and puffing. Those who tune into boxing expect to see athletes who take their commitment to the sport seriously. Showing up for a fight with a spare tire above your trunks shows you aren't committed and makes it hard for those who might be interested in the sport to take it seriously.

    Solution - Boxing needs fitness requirements that all fighters should have to meet. There are weight requirements, why not BMI requirements, among others? By implementing such requirements those that don't take the fight game as serious as they should, or those that hang around way past their prime would either be discouraged and go away, saving us the hassle of having to watch their boring fights, or would motivate them to get in shape and show up ready to fight. Every other profession, whether a sport or not, has requirements one must meet before they can do their job. Why does boxing allow non athletes, and uncommitted out of shape men to show up for work?


    * Old Fighters - If George Foreman proved anything it's that anything can and will happen in the sport of boxing, even when you're past your prime. With Foreman being the exception rather than the rule however, most over the hill fighters are allowed to fight on well into their 40's and as a result take unnecessary beatings and usually turn in sub par performances. As a long time boxing fan, I hate seeing great fighters retire as much as any other fan but it seems yesterday's greats don't know how to make a graceful exit in today's sport. If boxing wants to grow their fan base the sport needs age restrictions in addition to conditioning requirements. Watching the old guys fight is usually boring and more often than not the old timers take up fights with today's young hot champions, which keeps more competitive fights from happening, which in turn hurts the sport. It doesn't matter how great you once where, people want to see the best fights happen. Allowing 40+ fighters to continue fighting makes the sport look less like a sport and more like professional wrestling.

    Solution - Every governing body within the sport of boxing needs a rule that prohibits fighters over 40 from stepping into the ring. This would keep the sport fresh, competitive, energetic, and make it more attractive to fans and those who might want to become fans. If those over 40 must fight create a senior division. I'm sure there would be a huge market for that.

    * Making Great Fights - With all of the money to be had in boxing it's clear that neither fighters nor their promoters are going to after fights that pose a threat to their standing within the sport. As their focus is more about holding onto titles through handpicks and setups, governing bodies in boxing need to adapt policies that force fighters to fight the only the best. A policy such as this would certainly create some interesting and exciting match ups which would make the sport look a lot more attractive to casuals and non fans, than it currently does.

    Example - A tiered system by which a guy ranked 10 in the world must fight the guy who's ranked 9 in the world if he wants a shot at the guy who's 8 in the world. This forces the best to fight someone who's better and forces the higher ranked fighter to defend their position and/or earn a shot at the guy above him.

    * Inactive Fighters - I remember a time when fighters, even those at the top of the sport fought with a much higher frequency than the majority of the fighters do today. Mike Tyson comes to mind when I think of inactive vs. active and hungry fighters as a fighter in sharp contrast to today's fighter work rate and ethic. Tyson fought as often as he could and took on all opponents on his way up. These days fans are lucky if their favorite fighters puts the gloves on three times a year. This inactivity makes it hard for people to get and stay behind fighters and makes the sport even more difficult for casual fans to follow. Boxing's governing bodies need to implement a mandatory number of fights per year that all boxers must meet or exceed so that fans have something to look forward to and so that they don't have to wait months on end to see their fighters again.

    * Sideshows - Back in the 90's most of us loved Butterbean fights. I don't recall anyone in my circle of friends who wasn't excited when he was appearing on an under card. If Butterbean where boxing today he'd likely appear in the Heavyweight division rather than in 4 round tough man contests. I look at a fighter like Nikolai Valuev and wonder how he ever got licensed to fight at Heavyweight. With minimal boxing skills, and bad conditioning he's relies on his shear size and weight to win. This type of fighter is bad for boxing. Boxing organizations and governing bodies need to create or recreate a Super Heavyweight or Toughman style division where a Butterbean or Valuev type fighter can compete with their own kind. Market this division as a fun under card type of thing and let these sloppy overgrown and fat guys have at it. Valuev is not an athlete, nor is he a boxer. He's simply a giant with gloves on. His fights are long, boring and lack any kind of excitement whatsoever. A division like this might make for an entertaining under card on huge pay per view events. Everyone likes the sideshow.

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    • #72
      More Ideas

      * Early/Bad Stoppages - Fight fans watch fights because they enjoy watching men beat down on each other. On the flip side of that, unless your a sadist you don't want to see any boxer truly or permanently hurt or even killed. Boxing is a brutal sport and when lifetime injuries or death occurs it is truly a tragedy. Boxers however know when they make the decision to become a fighter that they're going to get hit. They know that they are going to have broken bones, extreme cuts, and face long term damage. For those who truly love to fight these things are big concerns and while I will agree the sport should do everything in its power to prevent severe injuring and deaths of its fighters boxing has lost a lot of it's potency violence wise. The majority of knockouts these days are TKO's rather than KO's. Inviting a friend over who was curious about boxing, I pumped up the fight to get him excited only to have him turn on me when the referee stepped in and stopped the fight before the fighter even had a chance to hit the canvass. My friend turned to me and said "are you kidding? That's it?" Now mind you the losing fighter was being beat and was wobbled and would have undoubtedly gone done had the other fighter landed one more punch but this kind of premature stoppage is prevalent throughout the sport of boxing today. Boxing's "better one punch early that one punch to late" attitude has diminished the sports competitive nature. In many cases fighters who get wobbled or look like they are on rubbery legs after beating the count could come back if given the chance but boxing plays it safe instead. Again we don't need or want to see someone take a senseless beating when it's clear they can not win or continue however a little more discretion from today's referee's would go a long way and allow for true KO's. Know when to let fighters finish fights. More action, violence and fighters in troubles creates excitement which draws more people to the sport. All referee's should take a queue from Steve Smoger.

      * Pay Per Views - Pay per views are now a couple of decades old and have generated a lot of revenue for the sport and certain networks. That said it has also alienated many fans. In today's boxing world this is even truer where we're sometimes asked to pay for fights that are obviously mismatches, or a contest between two has been's that has no meaning attached to it. I have also heard others ask why they must pay an additional cost for an HBO fight when they are already paying for HBO, a question I have often asked myself. If HBO and other networks are going to ask us to pay for the biggest fights, the fights need to be important, have some ramifications for the sport and the fighters involved and be a fight that's has the real possibility of being exciting. All other fights outside of that type of fight should be free. In more recent times I as have many other fight fans seen more exciting fights and fighters on ESPN's Friday Night Fights, than we have on PPV's. Pay Per Views should be relegated to Unification Bouts and things of that nature. Most causal fans or those who are curious will never pay $50.00 for a fight. We need a reason to pay for these fights. Then again the NFL doesn't charge its home viewers to watch the Superbowl and the MLB and NBA don't charge television viewers anything to watch their championship games so why are boxing fans being asked to pay for championship fights? hmmmm...

      * To many titles and divisions - I believe the sport of boxing would benefit greatly from eliminating all but two Championship titles from each weight class. Allowing two champions per division still allows for the big unification bouts and an the once sought after "undisputed" status. I further believe the only titles that should be recognized are The Ring titles. IBF this, and WBO that....what casual fan or prospective fan can follow all of that. I've been a boxing fan and enthusiast for nearly 25 years and I find it hard to keep up with all of that nonsense. Two champions per division and everyone else is just ranked. Additionally there are far to many weight divisions in boxing today. As someone who has boxed before I know the value of having or not having a few extra pounds but fighters with enough skill will topple the bigger man on any day. Now mind you I'm not talking a 20 or 30 pound difference but 3 to 10 pounds, come on. Again what casual observer or fan can't keep track of who's on top in the Superfeatherweight, Featherweight, Cruiserweight, Light Heavyweight, Middleweight, Welterweight, Bantamweight, and Junior Middleweight divisions? To many divisions and to many titles.

      Sorry for the long post...just a few of the things I think boxing should consider if it wants to be dominate in the sports world again.

      Comment


      • #73
        **** MMA and **** these ****** ass articles!! BOXING IS HERE TO STAY!

        Comment


        • #74
          Originally posted by Allucard View Post
          I do hope MMA has an effect on boxing taking away some money out of boxing. Right now boxing has priced itself out of the non ppv market and that is killing it's popularity. People used to have nothing else to buy for fights but it's not the case anymore. We can't afford to have Oscar, Roy, Bernard, Tarver among others, taking the spotlight from younger, more able fighters and help them portrait themselves as the best there is, paying them millions of dollars, making for hugely expensive, lousy shows (Calzaghe hopkins someone?) when you have mma bringing in KO in like 7 fights out of 10 regularly and champions like Chuck Lidell aren't protected from the young guys coming up. If Lidell was a boxer he'd be fooling us for a couple more fights against carefully chosen opponents before he would face an equally shot 1000 year old guy (Sort of like Jones is doing now in fighting Calzaghe or Oscar in fighting Manny). Instead of making us wait 2 years of hating, nuthuggin and controversy in general, Chuck was forced to fight a really good solid contender (NO TIME FOR TUNEUPS HERE, THEY DON'T **** WITH YOUR MONEY) and was KOed again in the first round. This while may seem cruel to old Chuck who, in his time, gave so much to the sport, but is necessary in all fighting sports. This keeps Oscar de la Hoya's types from emerging. Nor the fighters or their managers chooses who they fight, Dana White does, and this is the most important reason we are increasingly talking about MMA more. So are others.
          Superb post and spot on.

          I love MMA and boxing and watch both regularly but in this market managed world, boxing is just too fragmented, dispirate and tough for newcomers to get into.

          David Haye can talk a lot of **** but one of the best points he has made in interview was to make the exact point on fighters fostering, nurturing and protecting their unbeaten records.

          Records that mean nothing and say nothing.

          In MMA the loss column shows experience, not weakness. Look at Randy Couture... the guy's like 13-7 or something ****** - yet he is - and rightfully so - a legend in MMA.

          Boxing really needs to pull it's straps up and recapture some of the romance that has been lost by managers and governing bodies pillaging the soul of one of the most soulful and beautiful sports of the last century.

          Comment


          • #75
            Originally posted by Pelon Psyclone View Post
            Once the Browns and Blacks start dominating MMA in america, it won't be a big deal anymore. When Evans KOd Chuck, you could see the depression start to sink in on not only the fans faces, but other fighters as well.
            You. ****ing. Idiot.

            Comment


            • #76
              well in a street fight someone lie Brock Lesnar prob could beat up most boxers or mma fighters i think .

              Comment


              • #77
                Originally posted by The Weebler II View Post
                no one cares about MMA outside of America
                I live in Ireland and I love MMA but if there is boxing on TV , I will watch boxing because I like honestly like boxing and I watch much more boxing than MMA but MMA doesn't have the WBO and Frank Warren

                Comment


                • #78
                  Originally posted by myau1 View Post
                  * Early/Bad Stoppages - Fight fans watch fights because they enjoy watching men beat down on each other. On the flip side of that, unless your a sadist you don't want to see any boxer truly or permanently hurt or even killed. Boxing is a brutal sport and when lifetime injuries or death occurs it is truly a tragedy. Boxers however know when they make the decision to become a fighter that they're going to get hit. They know that they are going to have broken bones, extreme cuts, and face long term damage. For those who truly love to fight these things are big concerns and while I will agree the sport should do everything in its power to prevent severe injuring and deaths of its fighters boxing has lost a lot of it's potency violence wise. The majority of knockouts these days are TKO's rather than KO's. Inviting a friend over who was curious about boxing, I pumped up the fight to get him excited only to have him turn on me when the referee stepped in and stopped the fight before the fighter even had a chance to hit the canvass. My friend turned to me and said "are you kidding? That's it?" Now mind you the losing fighter was being beat and was wobbled and would have undoubtedly gone done had the other fighter landed one more punch but this kind of premature stoppage is prevalent throughout the sport of boxing today. Boxing's "better one punch early that one punch to late" attitude has diminished the sports competitive nature. In many cases fighters who get wobbled or look like they are on rubbery legs after beating the count could come back if given the chance but boxing plays it safe instead. Again we don't need or want to see someone take a senseless beating when it's clear they can not win or continue however a little more discretion from today's referee's would go a long way and allow for true KO's. Know when to let fighters finish fights. More action, violence and fighters in troubles creates excitement which draws more people to the sport. All referee's should take a queue from Steve Smoger.

                  * Pay Per Views - Pay per views are now a couple of decades old and have generated a lot of revenue for the sport and certain networks. That said it has also alienated many fans. In today's boxing world this is even truer where we're sometimes asked to pay for fights that are obviously mismatches, or a contest between two has been's that has no meaning attached to it. I have also heard others ask why they must pay an additional cost for an HBO fight when they are already paying for HBO, a question I have often asked myself. If HBO and other networks are going to ask us to pay for the biggest fights, the fights need to be important, have some ramifications for the sport and the fighters involved and be a fight that's has the real possibility of being exciting. All other fights outside of that type of fight should be free. In more recent times I as have many other fight fans seen more exciting fights and fighters on ESPN's Friday Night Fights, than we have on PPV's. Pay Per Views should be relegated to Unification Bouts and things of that nature. Most causal fans or those who are curious will never pay $50.00 for a fight. We need a reason to pay for these fights. Then again the NFL doesn't charge its home viewers to watch the Superbowl and the MLB and NBA don't charge television viewers anything to watch their championship games so why are boxing fans being asked to pay for championship fights? hmmmm...

                  * To many titles and divisions - I believe the sport of boxing would benefit greatly from eliminating all but two Championship titles from each weight class. Allowing two champions per division still allows for the big unification bouts and an the once sought after "undisputed" status. I further believe the only titles that should be recognized are The Ring titles. IBF this, and WBO that....what casual fan or prospective fan can follow all of that. I've been a boxing fan and enthusiast for nearly 25 years and I find it hard to keep up with all of that nonsense. Two champions per division and everyone else is just ranked. Additionally there are far to many weight divisions in boxing today. As someone who has boxed before I know the value of having or not having a few extra pounds but fighters with enough skill will topple the bigger man on any day. Now mind you I'm not talking a 20 or 30 pound difference but 3 to 10 pounds, come on. Again what casual observer or fan can't keep track of who's on top in the Superfeatherweight, Featherweight, Cruiserweight, Light Heavyweight, Middleweight, Welterweight, Bantamweight, and Junior Middleweight divisions? To many divisions and to many titles.

                  Sorry for the long post...just a few of the things I think boxing should consider if it wants to be dominate in the sports world again.
                  THE WBO and mandatory fights must take place within a year , theres another few problems

                  Comment


                  • #79
                    Originally posted by Sin City View Post
                    **** MMA and **** these ****** ass articles!! BOXING IS HERE TO STAY!

                    Agree with this

                    People are getting carried away, boxing is doing great right now.

                    Comment


                    • #80
                      U guys are truly some DUMBASSES....MMA is not big anywhere but America...LMFAO....Russia and Japan are much bigger MMA markets than USA....hell, the Toyko Dome packs out like 60,000 to an event ...I love boxing and I love MMA ....but boxing fans are the reason for all the arguments...they are the ones jealous of MMA...when you talk to someone who's in MMA they say nothing about boxing....but, its a totally different ballgame when you talk to a true boxing fan about MMA....its just plain JEALOUSY....I don't understand why....they are 2 different sports that have nothing to do with each other....the reason boxing is dying is because the talent is **** NOW....like what I say or hate it ....I personally couldn't give 2 ****s what you think....MMA is here to stay with talented fighters....might as well get used to it ....Even Oscar De La Hoya sees the future....thats why now he is now partners with Affliction....to try help pump some life back into boxing...

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