Is Felix Trinidad an ATG ???

[Silencers]

As TheMachine said, it depends on you definition of an ATG.

[JAB5239]

*Sigh* Don't wana get jumped on but I feel Tito has done more.

He may have. At the very least I think their careers outside of the Rock retiring undefeated are comparable. Im a huge fan of Marciano, but lets try to be realistic here!

[JAB5239]

As TheMachine said, it depends on you definition of an ATG.

True enough. That said, can anyone come up with 100 greater fighters? And If Tito does make your top 100, does that not make him an all time great in your opinions?

Lol! Can't believe Im making an argument for Trinidad. I use to despise this guy.

[Flawless]

Tito accomplished at 147 should not be enough for him to be an ATG. WHY??? Who was his best win at 147, Past his prime Pernall or the fight he lose against Oscar. How about being completely outboxed by Hopkins than losing to RJJ and Winky. He cleaned at 147, If Mayweather retired after cleaning at LW should that be enough for him to be an ATG??

[TheGreatA]

True enough. That said, can anyone come up with 100 greater fighters? And If Tito does make your top 100, does that not make him an all time great in your opinions?

Lol! Can't believe Im making an argument for Trinidad. I use to despise this guy.

I'm going to borrow a list of great fighters from another boxing forum... Credit to the guy who made it up (Kid McCoy of Sherdog).

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f53/mo...18/index3.html

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Willie Pep
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Jack Johnson
7. Joe Louis
8. Roberto Duran
9. Sam Langford
10. Benny Leonard
11. Joe Gans
12. Jack Dempsey
13. Mickey Walker
14. Tony Canzoneri
15. Gene Tunney
16. Rocky Marciano
17. Stanley Ketchel
18. Abe Attell
19. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
20. Barney Ross
21. Jimmy McLarnin
22. Marcel Cerdan
23. Archie Moore
24. Carlos Monzon
25. Jimmy Wilde
26. Sugar Ray Leonard
27. The original Joe Walcott
28. Terry McGovern
29. George Foreman
30. Julio Cesar Chavez
31. Ezzard Charles
32. Johnny Dundee
33. Jake LaMotta
34. Larry Holmes
35. Tommy Loughran
36. Emile Griffith
37. Pernell Whitaker
38. Billy Conn
39. Jose Napoles
40. Charles Kid McCoy
41. Jack Dillon
42. Ruben Olivares
43. Eder Jofre
44. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
45. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
46. Sandy Saddler
47. Georges Carpentier
48. George Dixon
49. Salvador Sanchez
50. Ted Kid Lewis
51. Carlos Zarate
52. Battling Nelson
53. John L. Sullivan
54. Thomas Hearns
55. Jack McAuliffe
56. Alexis Arguello
57. Evander Holyfield
58. Pasqual Perez
59. Tiger Flowers
60. Manny Pacquiao
61. Joe Frazier
62. Carmen Basilio
63. Pete Herman
64. Ike Williams
65. Maxie Rosenbloom
66. Kid Gavilan
67. **** Tiger
68. Pancho Villa
69. Charley Burley
70. Young Griffo
71. Joe Jeanette
72. Beau Jack
73. James J. Corbett
74. Tommy Ryan
75. Charles Sonny Liston
76. Jack Nonpareil Dempsey
77. Freddie Welsh
78. Jack Britton
79. Bob Fitzsimmons
80. Panama Al Brown
81. Tony Zale
82. Roy Jones Jr.
83. Bob Foster
84. Jim Driscoll
85. Kid Lavigne
86. Ad Wolgast
87. Oscar De La Hoya
88. James J. Jeffries
89. Peter Jackson
90. Marco Antonio Barrera
91. Johnny Coulon
92. Carlos Ortiz
93. Mike Gibbons
94. Wilfredo Gomez
95. Aaron Pryor
96. Mike Tyson
97. Bernard Hopkins
98. Jack Delaney
99. Dixie Kid
100. Jimmy Barry
101. Johnny Kilbane
102. Kid Chocolate
103. Felix Trinidad
104. Willie Ritchie
105. Billy Papke
106. Wilfredo Benitez
107. Manuel Ortiz
108. Lennox Lewis
109. Sam McVey
110. Packy MacFarland
111. Kid Williams
112. Harry Wills
113. Lew Jenkins
114. Lupe Pintor
115. Rocky Graziano
116. Les Darcey
117. Nicolino Locche
118. Fritzie Zivic
119. Sixto Escobar
120. Frankie Genaro
121. Miguel Canto
122. Owen Moran
123. Shane Mosley
124. Frank Klaus
125. George KO Chaney
126. Ricardo Lopez
127. Fidel LaBarba
128. Erik Morales
129. Starlight Rollins
130. Michael Spinks
131. Louis Kid Kaplan
132. Elky Clark
133. Azumah Nelson
134. Johnny Buff
135. Eladio Black Bill Valdes
136. Young Corbett III
137. Lou Tendler
138. Jeff Smith
139. Lou Ambers
140. Harold Johnson
141. Bud Taylor
142. Flash Elorde
143. Jackie Kid Berg
144. Frankie Burns
145. Antonio Cervantes
146. Packey McFarland
147. Nino Benvenuti
148. Luis Rodriguez
149. Eddie Campi
150. Dave Shade
151. Bushy Graham
152. Eusebio Pedroza
153. Sammy Mandell
154. Duilio Loi
155. Lionel Rose
156. Humberto Gonzalez
157. Vicente Saldivar
158. Bob Montgomery
159. Ray Famechon
160. Paul Berlenbach
161. Pete Latzo
162. Jimmy Slattery
163. Soldier Bartfield
164. Holman Williams
165. Masahiko "Fighting" Harada
166. Bat Battalino
167. Rene DeVos
168. Freddie Steele
169. Jimmy Bivins
170. Sot Chitalada
171. Kid Azteca
172. Freddie Miller
173. Billy Patrolle
174. Ken Overlin
175. Jimmy Carruthers
176. Wesley Ramey
177. Marcel Thil
178. Cocoa Kid
179. Sammy Angott
180. Chalky Wright
181. Max Schmelling
182. Eddie Booker
183. Jimmy Carter
184. Freddie Cochrane
185. Tippy Larkin
186. Lloyd Marshall
187. Floyd Patterson
188. Jeff Fenech
189. Harry Lewis
190. Joey Maxim
191. Alabama Kid
192. Kostya Tszyu
193. Kenny Lane
194. Harry Jeffra
195. Ismael Laguna
196. Mysterious Billy Smith
197. Khaosai Galaxy
198. Jose Torres
199. Hector Camacho
200. Hogan 'Kid' Bassey

Trinidad is number 103 on this list.

It's not a perfect list but I have respect for anyone who can come up with 200 names...

[JAB5239]

Tito accomplished at 147 should not be enough for him to be an ATG. WHY??? Who was his best win at 147, Past his prime Pernall or the fight he lose against Oscar. How about being completely outboxed by Hopkins than losing to RJJ and Winky. He cleaned at 147, If Mayweather retired after cleaning at LW should that be enough for him to be an ATG??

You fail to mention that he destroyed the two best fighters at 154 and decimated William Joppy, a very respectable middleweight. Any fighter you name can be torn down, my friend. Tito's only losses came against HOF fighters past his best weight. He's not the greatest ever, but he was a destuctive champion who's resume matches up well with many greats from the past and today.

[Sweet Pea 50]

Mayweather defense is better than Pernall and would easily survive 12 rounds with Tito.

First of all, get the name right, son.
Second, Pep might get the only nod from me over Pea in terms of defensive skill.
D. Tito is an all time great. In his prime at 147, he was pretty much one of the best that has ever did it.

[Flawless]

You fail to mention that he destroyed the two best fighters at 154 and decimated William Joppy, a very respectable middleweight. Any fighter you name can be torn down, my friend. Tito's only losses came against HOF fighters past his best weight. He's not the greatest ever, but he was a destuctive champion who's resume matches up well with many greats from the past and today.

He beat Joppy than fights Hopkins. People start making excuses for Tito about size when he was out boxed not out muscled

[Sweet Pea 50]

Like you said, Manchine,not a bad list. But I would have flipped JCC ,and Pea.
Just me...

[JAB5239]

I'm going to borrow a list of great fighters from another boxing forum... Credit to the guy who made it up (Kid McCoy of Sherdog).

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f53/mo...18/index3.html

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Willie Pep
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Jack Johnson
7. Joe Louis
8. Roberto Duran
9. Sam Langford
10. Benny Leonard
11. Joe Gans
12. Jack Dempsey
13. Mickey Walker
14. Tony Canzoneri
15. Gene Tunney
16. Rocky Marciano
17. Stanley Ketchel
18. Abe Attell
19. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
20. Barney Ross
21. Jimmy McLarnin
22. Marcel Cerdan
23. Archie Moore
24. Carlos Monzon
25. Jimmy Wilde
26. Sugar Ray Leonard
27. The original Joe Walcott
28. Terry McGovern
29. George Foreman
30. Julio Cesar Chavez
31. Ezzard Charles
32. Johnny Dundee
33. Jake LaMotta
34. Larry Holmes
35. Tommy Loughran
36. Emile Griffith
37. Pernell Whitaker
38. Billy Conn
39. Jose Napoles
40. Charles Kid McCoy
41. Jack Dillon
42. Ruben Olivares
43. Eder Jofre
44. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
45. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
46. Sandy Saddler
47. Georges Carpentier
48. George Dixon
49. Salvador Sanchez
50. Ted Kid Lewis
51. Carlos Zarate
52. Battling Nelson
53. John L. Sullivan
54. Thomas Hearns
55. Jack McAuliffe
56. Alexis Arguello
57. Evander Holyfield
58. Pasqual Perez
59. Tiger Flowers
60. Manny Pacquiao
61. Joe Frazier
62. Carmen Basilio
63. Pete Herman
64. Ike Williams
65. Maxie Rosenbloom
66. Kid Gavilan
67. **** Tiger
68. Pancho Villa
69. Charley Burley
70. Young Griffo
71. Joe Jeanette
72. Beau Jack
73. James J. Corbett
74. Tommy Ryan
75. Charles Sonny Liston
76. Jack Nonpareil Dempsey
77. Freddie Welsh
78. Jack Britton
79. Bob Fitzsimmons
80. Panama Al Brown
81. Tony Zale
82. Roy Jones Jr.
83. Bob Foster
84. Jim Driscoll
85. Kid Lavigne
86. Ad Wolgast
87. Oscar De La Hoya
88. James J. Jeffries
89. Peter Jackson
90. Marco Antonio Barrera
91. Johnny Coulon
92. Carlos Ortiz
93. Mike Gibbons
94. Wilfredo Gomez
95. Aaron Pryor
96. Mike Tyson
97. Bernard Hopkins
98. Jack Delaney
99. Dixie Kid
100. Jimmy Barry
101. Johnny Kilbane
102. Kid Chocolate
103. Felix Trinidad
104. Willie Ritchie
105. Billy Papke
106. Wilfredo Benitez
107. Manuel Ortiz
108. Lennox Lewis
109. Sam McVey
110. Packy MacFarland
111. Kid Williams
112. Harry Wills
113. Lew Jenkins
114. Lupe Pintor
115. Rocky Graziano
116. Les Darcey
117. Nicolino Locche
118. Fritzie Zivic
119. Sixto Escobar
120. Frankie Genaro
121. Miguel Canto
122. Owen Moran
123. Shane Mosley
124. Frank Klaus
125. George KO Chaney
126. Ricardo Lopez
127. Fidel LaBarba
128. Erik Morales
129. Starlight Rollins
130. Michael Spinks
131. Louis Kid Kaplan
132. Elky Clark
133. Azumah Nelson
134. Johnny Buff
135. Eladio Black Bill Valdes
136. Young Corbett III
137. Lou Tendler
138. Jeff Smith
139. Lou Ambers
140. Harold Johnson
141. Bud Taylor
142. Flash Elorde
143. Jackie Kid Berg
144. Frankie Burns
145. Antonio Cervantes
146. Packey McFarland
147. Nino Benvenuti
148. Luis Rodriguez
149. Eddie Campi
150. Dave Shade
151. Bushy Graham
152. Eusebio Pedroza
153. Sammy Mandell
154. Duilio Loi
155. Lionel Rose
156. Humberto Gonzalez
157. Vicente Saldivar
158. Bob Montgomery
159. Ray Famechon
160. Paul Berlenbach
161. Pete Latzo
162. Jimmy Slattery
163. Soldier Bartfield
164. Holman Williams
165. Masahiko "Fighting" Harada
166. Bat Battalino
167. Rene DeVos
168. Freddie Steele
169. Jimmy Bivins
170. Sot Chitalada
171. Kid Azteca
172. Freddie Miller
173. Billy Patrolle
174. Ken Overlin
175. Jimmy Carruthers
176. Wesley Ramey
177. Marcel Thil
178. Cocoa Kid
179. Sammy Angott
180. Chalky Wright
181. Max Schmelling
182. Eddie Booker
183. Jimmy Carter
184. Freddie Cochrane
185. Tippy Larkin
186. Lloyd Marshall
187. Floyd Patterson
188. Jeff Fenech
189. Harry Lewis
190. Joey Maxim
191. Alabama Kid
192. Kostya Tszyu
193. Kenny Lane
194. Harry Jeffra
195. Ismael Laguna
196. Mysterious Billy Smith
197. Khaosai Galaxy
198. Jose Torres
199. Hector Camacho
200. Hogan 'Kid' Bassey

Trinidad is number 103 on this list.

It's not a perfect list but I have respect for anyone who can come up with 200 names...

Good God!!! It is incredible somebody took the time to put that together. Kudo's to whoever did it!

Its subjective, but there are some names in the first 102 I think I would put Trinidad ahead of. There are also a couple in the next 97 that I might put ahead of him. That being said.....just looking at this list is it even arguable that Felix is an all time great? I don't think so myself, but we all have our opinions.

Thanks for posting that list, Manchine. I will be using it as a reference in the future.