Should Calzaghe be P4P number one in the RING rankings?

[Allucard]

No, because the condition of those fighters when you beat them would be taken into account when considering your resume. Just like Ali's win over Archie Moore means ****; Joe's win over bernard means less than it would have a few years back; Camacho's win over Leonard means nothing; etc etc.

Exactly, that's the point. But these matches keep happening. If anything they will be a tiebreaker when deciding "Who's the best all-time fighter" threads.

[abadger]

Calzaghe's #2 spot is justified, Pacman has more wins over better competition and deserves the #1 spot. However, I think if Calzaghe were American and had the same resume he would now be rated P4P #1. The main difference is that rather than having his pre-Lacy career ignored it would be embraced as that of a man who ruled his division and beat all the other champs, and he would receive massively more credit for his wins over Lacy, Kessler and especially Hopkins rather than having the value of these wins attacked. America likes winers and Calzaghe is certainly that, I can't se a way that he would be anything other than universally feted were he an American boxer.

[Dan...]

Calzaghe's #2 spot is justified, Pacman has more wins over better competition and deserves the #1 spot. However, I think if Calzaghe were American and had the same resume he would now be rated P4P #1. The main difference is that rather than having his pre-Lacy career ignored it would be embraced as that of a man who ruled his division and beat all the other champs, and he would receive massively more credit for his wins over Lacy, Kessler and especially Hopkins rather than having the value of these wins attacked. America likes winers and Calzaghe is certainly that, I can't se a way that he would be anything other than universally feted were he an American boxer.

Respectfully disagree. Manny's recent wins over all time greats and top class elite fighters would still have him at #1 I think.

[Chunk..]

abadger, me and you both know that they would never put a Brit at the top of the pound for pound ratings, has there ever been a Brit that has topped the list?

Pacquiao has been blowing his opponents away for years. Calzaghe 11 years as champ and 21 defences and still barely makes the top ten on the lists whilst 3 or 4 of the top ten are boring defensive American fighters. It has always been slightly tipped towards the Americans but this is probably as the most recognised list is the Ring magazines list which is obviously compiled by Americans.

[alt-mellow]

i must say... a BIG NO!!

[Dirk Diggler UK]

I think theres no doubt he'd be number 1 and probably celebrated as an ATG if he was American.

Pacquiao didnt even beat Marquez so I cant even rank him above him let alone Joe.

[abadger]

Respectfully disagree. Manny's recent wins over all time greats and top class elite fighters would still have him at #1 I think.

Maybe. I look at it like this, Pavlik makes mid places on the list after beating Jermain Taylor. Calzaghe was not on the list until he beat Jeff Lacy, despite the fact that Eubank, Brewer, Woodhall, Mitchell, Reid, Salem and Bika were all better. Had he been American he would have been on the list earlier, sometime in the middle of his defences, and having beat Kessler and Hopkins would have elevated him higher. its not certain, but I find it hard to imagine an undefeated American champ who holds Ring titles in two divisions and has compiled a record breaking no. of defences not being #1 when considered against todays candidates.

[abadger]

abadger, me and you both know that they would never put a Brit at the top of the pound for pound ratings, has there ever been a Brit that has topped the list?

Pacquiao has been blowing his opponents away for years. Calzaghe 11 years as champ and 21 defences and still barely makes the top ten on the lists whilst 3 or 4 of the top ten are boring defensive American fighters. It has always been slightly tipped towards the Americans but this is probably as the most recognised list is the Ring magazines list which is obviously compiled by Americans.

Completely agree.....

[ALT-Assassin]

Calzaghe's #2 spot is justified, Pacman has more wins over better competition and deserves the #1 spot. However, I think if Calzaghe were American and had the same resume he would now be rated P4P #1. The main difference is that rather than having his pre-Lacy career ignored it would be embraced as that of a man who ruled his division and beat all the other champs, and he would receive massively more credit for his wins over Lacy, Kessler and especially Hopkins rather than having the value of these wins attacked. America likes winers and Calzaghe is certainly that, I can't se a way that he would be anything other than universally feted were he an American boxer.

This is just sad that you think America has a conspiracy against non American fighters.How insicure can you get on the subject of Joe?Take a look at the P4P list,how many Americans are on it?.Bernard should be placed lower as well as Palik but you can argue their positions.Pacman has fought three future Hall of Fame fighters in {EM,MAB,JMM} and has trancended weightclasses moving from 112 to 135 in the span of his career.Calzaghe has just recently moved up from 168 to 175 nearing the end of his career.Pacman is the definition of a P4P fighter and has his claim of the number one spot.He is a four division champion who will be fighting Oscar at a catchweight of 145 most likely.If Calzaghe were American I would still rate Pacman above him.Just take a look at the European rankings,they even have Pacman ahead of Calzaghe.I find it funny how American bias is claimed when Pacman isn't even American.

[ALT-Assassin]

abadger, me and you both know that they would never put a Brit at the top of the pound for pound ratings, has there ever been a Brit that has topped the list?

Pacquiao has been blowing his opponents away for years. Calzaghe 11 years as champ and 21 defences and still barely makes the top ten on the lists whilst 3 or 4 of the top ten are boring defensive American fighters. It has always been slightly tipped towards the Americans but this is probably as the most recognised list is the Ring magazines list which is obviously compiled by Americans.

Number two isn't the top of the P4P rankings? It is at the peak. Wasn't Hatton near the top as well at one time after beating a non American Tsyzu?