Kelly Pavlik: "No Surprise if Roy Jones Beats Joe Calzaghe"

[Boofdatruth]

For some (unknown) reason, people began discussing "Ole Fishmouth's legacy"...............I don't see any legacy, except that he retired unbeaten without one, single, top class win on his record.

Of his earlier fights, excluding Castillo 1, the less said abuot them the better. The only way to describe them is " taking money under false pretenses".

It is his last 4 fights which tell the tale-if any- of his "legacy" and not one of them was anything but a "yawnmaker".

4 fights ago he fought Zab Judah. Judah did very well for the first 4 rounds and then lost interest.

He then fought Carlos Baldomir, with 9 losses, and not much good, whose previous 2 fights had been wins againt a well washed up Arturo Gatti and an-again- disinterested Judah.

Then he fought Oscar DeLa Hoya, who fights only once a year, and is a long time past his best, whose NEXT fight, at 147 gives him a 50-50 chance against MANNY the Mighty Midget, who began boxing life at 106 lbs and has come up only a couple of monthe ago to LIGHTWEIGHT, that is 135 lbs.

His last fight was against Ricky Hatton, a goodish 140 lb champ, whose style was all wrong to beat Mayweather, who had no difficulty in avoiding his rushes and whose KO was clearly helped along by Hatton running full tilt into the ringpost, which, I believe, was what KO'd him. But he was well beaten, although it took Mayweather a loooong 10 rounds.

Not one of the above deserve to or will go into the Hall of Fame, except Oscar, maybe, not for his boxing ability, but for the amount of money he draws for his fights.

This is Mayweather's true legacy..................

This can be done with every boxer that fought. Belittle their comp. When a fan does it, it doesn't mean much. I understand you have an opinion, but with posts like this, how can you be taken seriously? Compare to Cotto and Margs, and Pac, Floyd is a H.O.F 10 times over.

[Boofdatruth]

Personally, I'd rather see Pavlik fight Abraham first. I'd like to see him actually fight at Middleweight and defend his titles more than watch him jump all over the place right now.

That's what PAv wants to do too. Trust me, Pav-Abraham is next unless either man loses. Both want the fight.

[sunny31]

"The man is past his prime"

One of the best points anyone has made so far, people talk about him as if he is young and in his prime, if so I would be extremely critical of choosing jones, but he is 3,4 maybe 5 years past his prime, just because his biggest wins have come in the last 2 years doesn't mean he is at his peak. It is amazing he has lasted this long with his hand trouble, which is often overlooked.

Its clear people just wanna see him take a loss, and even then I don't think pavlik or any of the others definitely beat him.

Even if he retires undefeated I would not put him in the same category with jones, or hopkins in terms of greatness or legacy. But one thing is for certain he would have been competitive against most of the great middleweights lightheavy's over the years who he loses to and beats is down to opinion.

One thing I think no one can argue is that he is the best super middle of all time

[IMDAZED]

Oh, so when you watch boxing you're supposed to score it for the guy who doesn't throw or land as many punches as long as the busier, more effective fighter gets more tired? Thanks for explaining that, apparently I've been doing it wrong all along.

If what you were saying was true, I would agree. It's not. And I'll tell you something, I'm not always on point but to me, that was Hopkins' best performance since the Trinidad fight.

Hopkins worked plenty in the first six rounds, in fact I had the fight even after six. That's not a knock on JT--I thought he legitimately won three of the first six but I can't give him more when his wild, obvious punches are missing its mark. When he wasn't doing that he was just bouncing around, jittery as a ****** the night she gives it up.

What was Hopkins doing? He was BOXING. He showed superior defense, ring generalship and landed the CLEANER, harder, more effective shots. Except unlike Calzaghe, Taylor never came back down the stretch. He got HAMMERED. It didn't begin in the latter rounds, it began very early when Hopkins took away his jab and established impeccable D on the outside, while outLANDING his younger opponent. And roughing him up too.

All that wore Taylor down. ****, it wasn't as if he was landing anything. So if he wasn't landing, what was he doing other than eating shots? And he ate a lot of them. Not in bunches, but subtle, punishing shots that went unnoticed by the announcing crew (and apparently half the people who watched it) but told a story on Jermain's face.

Hopkins had his way with him--the last four rounds were just brutal. That was his MO. Once I saw him fading in the latter rounds of the Winky fight, I knew he was over. But he still had it against Taylor - he operated like a surgeon that night.

[daggum]

If what you were saying was true, I would agree. It's not. And I'll tell you something, I'm not always on point but to me, that was Hopkins' best performance since the Trinidad fight.

Hopkins worked plenty in the first six rounds, in fact I had the fight even after six. That's not a knock on JT--I thought he legitimately won three of the first six but I can't give him more when his wild, obvious punches are missing its mark. When he wasn't doing that he was just bouncing around, jittery as a ****** the night she gives it up.

What was Hopkins doing? He was BOXING. He showed superior defense, ring generalship and landed the CLEANER, harder, more effective shots. Except unlike Calzaghe, Taylor never came back down the stretch. He got HAMMERED. It didn't begin in the latter rounds, it began very early when Hopkins took away his jab and established impeccable D on the outside, while outLANDING his younger opponent. And roughing him up too.

All that wore Taylor down. ****, it wasn't as if he was landing anything. So if he wasn't landing, what was he doing other than eating shots? And he ate a lot of them. Not in bunches, but subtle, punishing shots that went unnoticed by the announcing crew (and apparently half the people who watched it) but told a story on Jermain's face.

Hopkins had his way with him--the last four rounds were just brutal. That was his MO. Once I saw him fading in the latter rounds of the Winky fight, I knew he was over. But he still had it against Taylor - he operated like a surgeon that night.

one of the "judges" gave taylor the 12th round in that fight. funny huh. hopkins dominated the round and hurt taylor badly yet that's not enough. hopkins you need to give it up they aren't gonna let you win anymore.

[Allucard]

Man, Pavlik really wants that fight... It's a bit uncharacteristic for him to be talking ****...:alien:

And you know why? Because he's a real fighter. he definitely won't back down unlike Calzaghe did. Imagine, if Calzaghe had proven himself in his youth he wouldn't have to fight at this stage against even older opposition, disgracing boxing. In everyone's mind we know the biggest fights do not feature the best fighters at the given time. Its Calzaghe's own fault he's fighting Jones now. He should have moved with the elite of boxing a long time ago and earned his chance like everyone else.

[Boofdatruth]

And you know why? Because he's a real fighter. he definitely won't back down unlike Calzaghe did. Imagine, if Calzaghe had proven himself in his youth he wouldn't have to fight at this stage against even older opposition, disgracing boxing. In everyone's mind we know the biggest fights do not feature the best fighters at the given time. Its Calzaghe's own fault he's fighting Jones now. He should have moved with the elite of boxing a long time ago and earned his chance like everyone else.

Man, go ball your opinion up and throw it on the gobbage lol. Yes, gobbage

[Boofdatruth]

one of the "judges" gave taylor the 12th round in that fight. funny huh. hopkins dominated the round and hurt taylor badly yet that's not enough. hopkins you need to give it up they aren't gonna let you win anymore.

Good point. Everyone knows HBO was looking for a new face for HBO, and they made a bad investment at that time. Taylor has 2 suspect wins over Hop.

[dstew]

Hopkins worked plenty in the first six rounds, in fact I had the fight even after six. That's not a knock on JT--I thought he legitimately won three of the first six but I can't give him more when his wild, obvious punches are missing its mark. When he wasn't doing that he was just bouncing around, jittery as a ****** the night she gives it up.

What was Hopkins doing? He was BOXING. He showed superior defense, ring generalship and landed the CLEANER, harder, more effective shots. Except unlike Calzaghe, Taylor never came back down the stretch. He got HAMMERED. It didn't begin in the latter rounds, it began very early when Hopkins took away his jab and established impeccable D on the outside, while outLANDING his younger opponent. And roughing him up too.

All that wore Taylor down. ****, it wasn't as if he was landing anything. So if he wasn't landing, what was he doing other than eating shots? And he ate a lot of them. Not in bunches, but subtle, punishing shots that went unnoticed by the announcing crew (and apparently half the people who watched it) but told a story on Jermain's face.

Hopkins had his way with him--the last four rounds were just brutal. That was his MO. Once I saw him fading in the latter rounds of the Winky fight, I knew he was over. But he still had it against Taylor - he operated like a surgeon that night.

We will have to disagree on the first half of the fight, because while you claim to have seen Hopkins "boxing", I saw him taking it easy with only short bouts of activity, hoping to take advantage of Taylor down the stretch (which admittedly, after 7, he did). Your scoring is in question if you think he won even the first round, which you said earlier, as he only threw 12 punches in that round and landed four or five, while Taylor threw more and landed more, including the cleaner, harder shots. I just re-watched this, there is no way Hopkins takes that round.

While the decisions were controversial, you cannot reasonably argue that Hopkins was robbed in either fight since he did not do enough to set himself apart as the dominant fighter throughout the fight. If the judges had gone his way, you couldn't make a strong case that Taylor was robbed either. It was that type of fight.

Along those lines, I thought Taylor was clearly the more talented, dominant boxer in his second fight with Pavlik... WHEN HE BOXED. He was landing the cleaner, harder, more accurate shots most of the fight, I scored it pretty much even if not a round ahead for Taylor, but will not ***** about the decision that was handed down because it was close, and Taylor didn't do enough work to warrant any claim that he was robbed. It's with that mindset that I approach the Taylor/Hopkins fights, and I have to laugh whenever anyone claims that Taylor was gifted those decisions.

There are worse judgements every week in this sport; if you want a mark in the right-hand column, you've got to work for it. Which is exactly why Hopkins is very unlikely to win a decision against a busy Kelly Pavlik.

[dstew]

Good point. Everyone knows HBO was looking for a new face for HBO, and they made a bad investment at that time. Taylor has 2 suspect wins over Hop.

HBO is no dumber than the rest of us for their investment in Taylor, as surely they see the same things we fans saw (and see) - a young, likeable, gifted fighter.

At the time not as much was known about his questionable emotional state (for a fighter); over the last three years that has become more and more obvious.

But in the end, Taylor led them to their new (at least for the moment) golden boy.