Someone explain to me the whole RJJ was weight drained against Tarver theory.

[Easy-E]

I also love the fact after getting more credit than anybody for beating one of the worst heavyweight champs ever in Ruiz, he had all the options in the world. When names like Lewis, Holyfield and Tyson came up. RJJ jumped all over the idea of fighting a then pretty small name in Tarver. Taver was the best fighter he fought in years and lost the first fight, but like always Jones living on his name got him the decsion. So Jones has to be ready for the second fight, no doubt about it. Tarver game him his toughest fight ever. Fight comes along and boom Roy Jones gets KTFO.

The same people who say RJJ was weight drained for the Tarver fight are the same ones who blow off the fact that James Toney was. He had to lose 50 pounds and be on a IV when RJJ fought him.

Fallacy.
That is not accurate.

[Dan...]

He was clearly not the same fighter after he shed the weight to go back down to LHW to fight Tarver. Just go and watch his fights leading up to Ruiz then watch Tarver I and the difference is incredible. He may have beaten Tarver in that first fight but he struggled worse than ever before. The writing was on the wall at this point.

[Dan...]

Tarver was always going to cause Roy problems at any point in their careers. Roy is better, but Tarver could have beaten him at any time and vice versa.

Wow. Just wow. Don't watch boxing.

[ben41193]

see you think because there was an 8 month time from ruiz to tarver, that for 8 months roy worked on getting back to LHW... well he didnt... he was looking at possibly a holyfield fight... then he decided to fight tarver...

he didnt start losing weight for the entire 8 months.. he did his 10 week training camp...


now when you have FAT on your body, losing 24 pounds... QUITE doable with a professional 10 week training camp... when you have NOTHING but muscle.... losing 24 POUNDS.. is HUGE... especially at 34-35 years old...

you have to run with a rubber suit on, then run some more, then run some more... and completely weight drain your entire body... lose 24 pounds of water and muscle... and THEN go fight a 12 round championship fight with a GOOD fighter...

and he WON!

now after the fight, u think hes just gonna keep all that water off and be dehydrated? no hes gonna go back up to where he was after the fight...

and guess what? 6 months later, hes gonna have to do it ALL OVER again... at 35 years old... theres no way, no how, that ISNT gonna take it out of you.... as ive said before.. u can pass out from doing NOTHING if your dehydrated, let alone being punched in the face... being dehydrated definitely takes away from your punch resistance...

with that said, tarver STILL landed a good punch on roy...

the johnson KO was 4 months after the tarver KO... and yet ANOTHER training camp right after the tarver fight... hes basically KILLING his body with this ****

and the 3rd fight with tarver... well that was basically... just GO 12 rounds and survive... i think anyone NORMAL would be gunshy after being iced twice..




all u have to do is look at the comparison below.. and know something is going on with the weight draining


Ruiz fight


8 months later, tarver fight...

GREAT POST!!!! green k ur way i never understood it but that makes complete since

[Clegg]

see you think because there was an 8 month time from ruiz to tarver, that for 8 months roy worked on getting back to LHW... well he didnt... he was looking at possibly a holyfield fight... then he decided to fight tarver...

he didnt start losing weight for the entire 8 months.. he did his 10 week training camp...


now when you have FAT on your body, losing 24 pounds... QUITE doable with a professional 10 week training camp... when you have NOTHING but muscle.... losing 24 POUNDS.. is HUGE... especially at 34-35 years old...

you have to run with a rubber suit on, then run some more, then run some more... and completely weight drain your entire body... lose 24 pounds of water and muscle... and THEN go fight a 12 round championship fight with a GOOD fighter...

and he WON!

So Roy's weight at the start of training for the first Tarver fight was 199? I'm not trying to be picky, I haven't read what it was either way.

now after the fight, u think hes just gonna keep all that water off and be dehydrated? no hes gonna go back up to where he was after the fight...

and guess what? 6 months later, hes gonna have to do it ALL OVER again... at 35 years old... theres no way, no how, that ISNT gonna take it out of you.... as ive said before.. u can pass out from doing NOTHING if your dehydrated, let alone being punched in the face... being dehydrated definitely takes away from your punch resistance...

with that said, tarver STILL landed a good punch on roy...

the johnson KO was 4 months after the tarver KO... and yet ANOTHER training camp right after the tarver fight... hes basically KILLING his body with this ****

I don't think that's true. Jones bulked up in order to fight at HW, so it would've taken an effort to stay at that weight, let alone to go back up to it after the first Tarver fight.

You talk about Jones having problems because of being in his mid-30s, but actually it may have made it easier for him to keep his muscle weight down after the first Tarver fight.

Generally speaking, the older you are, the lower your testosterone levels, and the harder it is for you to gain muscle. If Jones lost a lot of muscle for the first Tarver fight, it would not just suddenly re-grow once he stopped training so hard. He might put on fat, but the only way he would put on muscle is through following the right diet and workout plan, especially in his mid-30s.

I know from experience that if you bulk up and put on solid muscle, it doesn't take much time of eating the same amount of protein and complex carbs as a normal person to lose that muscle. Obviously you won't lose it all, but you will lose quite a bit. This is what happened to me and to others that I've discussed things with.

Some people (eg. Tyson) are naturally built so that they're gonna be big anyway...but Roy is not one of those people. I'm sure that Jones put back on water weight after the first Tarver fight, but I'm also sure that, like many fighters, he also put some back on after the weigh-in.

I'm sure you know more about it than I do, but based upon what I know there is no sensible reason for Roy to be weight drained for the rematch. He would have to intentionally gain muscle for that to be the case.

[wmute]

There's no greater proof to the greatness of Roy Jones Jr. than the fact that people argue he should've fought Lennox Lewis.

That pretty much says it all.

true!

When a former middleweight is criticized for not fighting the dominant champ of one of the best HW eras, you know he is a GREAT former Middleweight

[Dynamite Kid]

the people who think Tarver beat Jones first time around clearly dont have the first idea of how to score a fight ,u people need your head examining if u think Tarver won that fight yes it was competitive but Jones won clearly by at least 2 rounds

[LondonRingRules]

1) Jones goes up to HW in March of 03 and beats Ruiz.

** You'e asking to explain a Don King smoke and mirrors production.

Nobody but Roy or possibly a trainer can tell you the facts, and Roy can't be trusted because he has a reputation to protect.

The facts are Roy weighed in only 5-7lbs above his normal ring weight. If looks count, that was all muscle weight. His "ring weight" for the fight was 12-14lbs above his normal ring weight. We don't know his actual weight because he never stripped down. Assuming he wasn't wearing weights or accessories, his actual weight at weighin right at 190lb limit, making him 5lbs or less over his normal ring weight.

All this 50 lbs of solid muscle stuff just hooey by fanboys.

Circumstantial evidence would point to possible steroid use at this time. Again, nothing proven.

Next, we don't know what weight Roy blew up to or shrunk down to after the fight. The reports out of training camp for the first Tarver fight were glowing, but again, these writers sometimes fall in love with their subject and don't have the best eye usually. Training sessions can be choreographed, ect, so unless you are an insider, it's all smoke and mirrors.

It's a concensus that Roy didn't look good for the Tarver fight, but pulled it out at the end. Facts are he had been looking lackadaisical in fights leading up to the Ruiz fight. That ended up being such a big event that he was well motivated for, and he also had a lot of assistance from the ref who wouldn't let Ruiz fight like Ruiz.

King after all was looking to squeeze money out of Roy for future heavy fights, set up everything for that purpose.

Roy got the big head, started talking 100 mil purses, and for some reason let the pipsqueak Tarver get under his skin. He was given a signed Jirov contract drawn up by Roy's manager for his cruiser title, but Roy never signed and let it die in his drawer. He backed out of Holy negotiations. We know what Toney did with those two. They salvaged his tattered rep.

After Toney beat Jirov, the Toney rematch was the biggest non heavy bout Roy could have made, but Roy wouldn't bite on that. Probably personal animosity towards Toney, but who knows?

Seems to me that Roy's just been hanging on, going through the motions after Ruiz. Likes the glory, the attention, the training, but just marking time in the ring, denying the aging process.

Someone mentioned he just got caught against Tarver the 2nd fight. Absolutely. That was like a gunshot in the ring that brought down the moon. One off shot that knocked the earth off it's axis. That shot drops 99.999% of the lightheavies who ever lived for the count. If you look, Roy has his right guard in solid position too. It was just one of those perfect shots.

Since then, it's been a crisis of confidence for Roy. Not good enough to beat the best, but good enough to keep a ranking and maybe worm his way to a soft landing.

Thus, enter Joe Calzaghe. We shall see.

[Darkstar]

Fallacy.
That is not accurate.

Just made a thread about it.

[Darkstar]

** You'e asking to explain a Don King smoke and mirrors production.

Nobody but Roy or possibly a trainer can tell you the facts, and Roy can't be trusted because he has a reputation to protect.

The facts are Roy weighed in only 5-7lbs above his normal ring weight. If looks count, that was all muscle weight. His "ring weight" for the fight was 12-14lbs above his normal ring weight. We don't know his actual weight because he never stripped down. Assuming he wasn't wearing weights or accessories, his actual weight at weighin right at 190lb limit, making him 5lbs or less over his normal ring weight.

All this 50 lbs of solid muscle stuff just hooey by fanboys.

Circumstantial evidence would point to possible steroid use at this time. Again, nothing proven.

Next, we don't know what weight Roy blew up to or shrunk down to after the fight. The reports out of training camp for the first Tarver fight were glowing, but again, these writers sometimes fall in love with their subject and don't have the best eye usually. Training sessions can be choreographed, ect, so unless you are an insider, it's all smoke and mirrors.

It's a concensus that Roy didn't look good for the Tarver fight, but pulled it out at the end. Facts are he had been looking lackadaisical in fights leading up to the Ruiz fight. That ended up being such a big event that he was well motivated for, and he also had a lot of assistance from the ref who wouldn't let Ruiz fight like Ruiz.

King after all was looking to squeeze money out of Roy for future heavy fights, set up everything for that purpose.

Roy got the big head, started talking 100 mil purses, and for some reason let the pipsqueak Tarver get under his skin. He was given a signed Jirov contract drawn up by Roy's manager for his cruiser title, but Roy never signed and let it die in his drawer. He backed out of Holy negotiations. We know what Toney did with those two. They salvaged his tattered rep.

After Toney beat Jirov, the Toney rematch was the biggest non heavy bout Roy could have made, but Roy wouldn't bite on that. Probably personal animosity towards Toney, but who knows?

Seems to me that Roy's just been hanging on, going through the motions after Ruiz. Likes the glory, the attention, the training, but just marking time in the ring, denying the aging process.

Someone mentioned he just got caught against Tarver the 2nd fight. Absolutely. That was like a gunshot in the ring that brought down the moon. One off shot that knocked the earth off it's axis. That shot drops 99.999% of the lightheavies who ever lived for the count. If you look, Roy has his right guard in solid position too. It was just one of those perfect shots.

Since then, it's been a crisis of confidence for Roy. Not good enough to beat the best, but good enough to keep a ranking and maybe worm his way to a soft landing.

Thus, enter Joe Calzaghe. We shall see.

Nice post.. Green K for that