is calzage an all time great if he beats rjj and retires undefeated???

[Sir Tom Jones]

So much hate for Joe Calzaghe.

I will always remember the Jeff Lacy fight and how he was going to wipe the floor with Joe.

Alll time great? No. A great boxer? . Definitely.

Any boxer who has been a champ the same length as Calzaghe deserves regonition.

[Dan...]

The way ppl throw around the term ATG these days I say he probably will be if he beats Roy. There will always be serious questions over his resume though and the fact that he left it so late to go to the US to fight the best out there.

[Addition]

he had 21 straight defenses but mostly against guys i never heard of. he also had the lineal title in 2 divisions.

Out of his 21 defences, Kessler was the only decent fighter he fought.

[TheSurgeonMDMPH]

How is this even a forum thread. This guy whole career is a joke. He finally steps in with the best comp of his career when his challengers are waaaaaaaaaaay past their prime. And the argument that these guys dodge him is BS pasta eaten by FANS. ***azhe is nothing more than an opportunist who benefited from great career crafting by a shrewd promoter.

[RichCCFC]

Out of his 21 defences, Kessler was the only decent fighter he fought.

I thought you was better than that?

[Chunk..]

With all due respect to Calzaghe fans, Joe is good, but no where near that good. In fact Joe may be the best British fighter since Lennox Lewis, who by most standards was exceptional, but Joe isn't even the best British fighter in history, let alone worthy of all time great historical status. Lennox over all was superior to Joe. The two you mentioned have few if any peers, and other than Lewis, almost no British boxers have ever reached the historical status or Robinson or Marciano.

Joe Calzaghe hasn't beaten a young prime champion, and even with wins over Roy Jones Jr., and a few legitimate light heavyweights like Tarver, Johnson, Dawson, Joe still wouldn't rate historically as high as Robinson or Marciano. There are many factors involved, and this is no slight on Joe. No modern fighter currently active today with the exception of maybe Roy Jones or Holyfield warrant top ten historical status. People far more accomplished than Calzaghe, like James Toney, Manny Pacquiao, or the trio of great Mexican little big guys, Morales, Barrera and Marquez don't rate that high historically either.

Joe's level of competition over his 45 fights makes it difficult to take him seriously. Beating a 43 year old Hopkins was really Joe's first notable fight since he won his first title, against another aging veteran. Historically you must beat talented competition in their prime to forge a respectable legacy, something so far Joe hasn't done..... YET. His career isn't even close to over, and most feel it has just began. Joe was too protected for too long to simply flash 45 wins over 40 unknowns and (5 name opponents all with major flaws) to be considered even close to "historical greatness".

Sorry, but if Joe goes 50-0 against nobodies he would be a tough sell, you have to beat the BEST in order to be the best. Maybe in 20 years his record would be a major selling point, but for people who know who Joe fought, it isn't that significant. Joe is very good, but not that good.

[Addition]

I thought you was better than that?

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, he's a damn good boxer but I wouldn't go far as saying he's an all time great.

[bsrizpac]

Hatton TKO Mayweather Round 10

Didn't you say this then lie about saying it?

[El Dominicano]

Out of his 21 defences, Kessler was the only decent fighter he fought.

And thats decent not good but decent.

[Kris Silver]

With all due respect to Calzaghe fans, Joe is good, but no where near that good. In fact Joe may be the best British fighter since Lennox Lewis, who by most standards was exceptional, but Joe isn't even the best British fighter in history, let alone worthy of all time great historical status. Lennox over all was superior to Joe. The two you mentioned have few if any peers, and other than Lewis, almost no British boxers have ever reached the historical status or Robinson or Marciano.

Joe Calzaghe hasn't beaten a young prime champion, and even with wins over Roy Jones Jr., and a few legitimate light heavyweights like Tarver, Johnson, Dawson, Joe still wouldn't rate historically as high as Robinson or Marciano. There are many factors involved, and this is no slight on Joe. No modern fighter currently active today with the exception of maybe Roy Jones or Holyfield warrant top ten historical status. People far more accomplished than Calzaghe, like James Toney, Manny Pacquiao, or the trio of great Mexican little big guys, Morales, Barrera and Marquez don't rate that high historically either.

Joe's level of competition over his 45 fights makes it difficult to take him seriously. Beating a 43 year old Hopkins was really Joe's first notable fight since he won his first title, against another aging veteran. Historically you must beat talented competition in their prime to forge a respectable legacy, something so far Joe hasn't done..... YET. His career isn't even close to over, and most feel it has just began. Joe was too protected for too long to simply flash 45 wins over 40 unknowns and (5 name opponents all with major flaws) to be considered even close to "historical greatness".

Sorry, but if Joe goes 50-0 against nobodies he would be a tough sell, you have to beat the BEST in order to be the best. Maybe in 20 years his record would be a major selling point, but for people who know who Joe fought, it isn't that significant. Joe is very good, but not that good.

I agree Lennox is better, but I also think Joe could well be worthy of ATG, certainly not top 10 lol that much is for sure, definitely top 50, maybe top 30, thereafter I'm just not totally sure enough to say at the moment.

The fact of the matter is so many ppl, even at home, have been un aware of a lot of his fights and his accomplishments, during a lull in boxing and also because he didn't have many career defining massive fights. He's had a lot of bad luck which has kept him less known then he would've been otherwise. One being him not being in the Olympics years ago when he should've been, and had beaten the guy whom won. Boxers get massive boosts from getting medals at the olympics, you only have to mention Audley Harrison and Khan, and none of them have even won a world title. Imagine if Joe had gotten that name hype and exposure for one.

There on he was often disliked for beating the suddenly liked Eubank. There wasn't many big marketable fights around. A lot of the names we know as still big today unfortunately Joe has missed out on. Roy and Nard weren't in the SMW division once Joe was defending his SMW belt, and vacating wasn't really an option for him which has it's pro's and cons. Nard had a fight with him then backed out, Johnson; Joe injured his hand and Johnson wouldn't wait. A win over just one of those back in the day and people would look totally different upon Calzaghes resume and him as a boxer.

I've watched most of his fights, recently Richie Woodhall another underestimated fighter, and Joe is just a very classy fighter. Guys were fitter than ever and pumped to beat him and Joe even on a bad, ill, or injured night such as against Reid, he still wins.

As for him not fighting young prime champs. Well I'd just say a couple of names in Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler. The former a once well hyped fighter whom is still #5 in the SMW Ring Ratings, and now conveniently played down, but in the next sentence given a good chance against Taylor.
The latter; Kessler is underrated and will go onto some great wins, people are starting to realise this. I hope he does too, would love to see him beat Pavlik, that'd raise and answer a few questions as to the levels some guys are put at.

It's a great shame Joe is fighting some big names, whom are still big names, so late on. It's almost like Joe can't win what he does though. The fact is, Nard was LHW #1, had beaten Tarver, and Roy is still at #7 at LHW above Clinton Woods, whom has always been competitive with Johnson. Nard and Roy are past there primes sure, but noway near as much as ppl make out, Nard was a good win and Roy would be too.