Many ATG's have retired in there Prime! Not just PBF.

[Left Hook Tua]

he would beat all those greats at 30-35-40 except the ones bolded.

You forgot Pea, on which I am very undecided.

The best chance at 130 would come from Saddler, styles make fights. Neither Nelson and Arguello had the right style to beat him. Arguello was awesome but way too straightforward... straight right hands on that type of defense? I dont think so... Nelson would do better.

The 130 fighters should be considered p4p because they were smaller men... in the era of same day weigh ins floyd would start his career at 135.

The fact that I rate him the best ever at 140 (and pick him to beat both Pryor and JC) doesnt matter that much, because Duran would have been the best if he ever toched that weigh class...

But I have no doubt that he is the best fighter to grace 130.

good points. like i said , floyd would be very competitive with anybody 130-147. but i think we just have different criterias. which is not a bad thing. to each his own. that's what makes good forum discussion.

i try not to look at head to head when it comes to skill. how many times have we thought that one fighter was way too good for someone and been surprised. pacquiao-barrera 1 was a mismatch when it was announced. who thought this little known 122 lber could beat a legend and top 10 p4p featherweight? who thought corrie sanders would make wladimir look like it was his first time iceskating? who thought duran had a chance against a monster like iran?

i like to judge more resume-wise than head to head. joe louis would probably get knocked out by wlad head to head...... i would hate to ever think wlad is greater than joe louis.

floyd had very few career defining fights. to be all time great i feel you need either great names on your resume or a record that is amazing like say haglers run of title defenses. or joe's long reign. floyd didn't stay at his respective weight classes long enough and people's views that he ducked this guy at this weight or this guy at that weight really hurts him , fair or not.

[KnockoutTheFat]

Michael Spinks

Well, he ran into a prime Tyson.

Holyfield retired in his prime. So did Vitali Klitschko. But then they came back (in Holy's case, one too many times). Safe to say that PBF will come back in like a year facing the Cotto-Margarito winner or he might just pull a fast one on us and go for Pavlik FAT CHANCE but that would be funny

[LondonRingRules]

who are the the 6 ring ranked fighters Cotto has faced? what do you mean by ranked.

What do you mean by a HoF fight?

knowing you and knowing me, this is going to be a long one...

** This ain't complicated.

Just pull up the current Ring or ********* rankings and see how many fighters Cotto has beat and compare to Floydy, Manny, or anyone.

HOF fight is one against a probable/guarantee HOFer. Nobody doubts that Morales and Barrera are HOF bound. Possibly Marquez, and that's 7 fights for Manny right there.

Floydy has 4 at most. Oscar is a lock, but Castillo and Hatton are only possible..

[El Jesus]

good points. like i said , floyd would be very competitive with anybody 130-147. but i think we just have different criterias. which is not a bad thing. to each his own. that's what makes good forum discussion.

i try not to look at head to head when it comes to skill. how many times have we thought that one fighter was way too good for someone and been surprised. pacquiao-barrera 1 was a mismatch when it was announced. who thought this little known 122 lber could beat a legend and top 10 p4p featherweight? who thought corrie sanders would make wladimir look like it was his first time iceskating? who thought duran had a chance against a monster like iran?

i like to judge more resume-wise than head to head. joe louis would probably get knocked out by wlad head to head...... i would hate to ever think wlad is greater than joe louis.

floyd had very few career defining fights. to be all time great i feel you need either great names on your resume or a record that is amazing like say haglers run of title defenses. or joe's long reign. floyd didn't stay at his respective weight classes long enough and people's views that he ducked this guy at this weight or this guy at that weight really hurts him , fair or not.

I think the biggest problem with floyd was that he was always meant to be the fighter he became. From the amatuers to the pros, everyone already knew he was incredible, and thats what he was in the ring. He looked troubled at times, but only really struggled in one fight, in which he rematched and won decisively.

My question to you, other then at WW, what fighters from his era, 96-05 would have given him that career legacy fight from 130-140?

[Left Hook Tua]

I think the biggest problem with floyd was that he was always meant to be the fighter he became. From the amatuers to the pros, everyone already knew he was incredible, and thats what he was in the ring. He looked troubled at times, but only really struggled in one fight, in which he rematched and won decisively.

My question to you, other then at WW, what fighters from his era, 96-05 would have given him that career legacy fight from 130-140?

tszyu but i heard kostya didn't want to fight floyd in the end so he chose hatton. don't know about earlier in their careers.

maybe spadafora at lightweight. casa? freitas at 130? not that i think any of those guys could have beat him. certainly would help his resume though.

wouldn't some of those guys have been better choices than say brusseles or sosa? i know guys need tuneups. but look at manny for example. he beats marco at 126 for the ring belt and then he fights marquez. those 2 were arguably the #1 and #2 at 126 at the time. manny does tuneups too but after he sandwiches them with the #1 or #2 in the division. manny in a space of 4-5 years has solidified his legacy. he goes from juanma for the 130 belt and his tuneup is a 135 beltholder. who knows who the hell he'll fight after david but if it's hatton or casa or juan or nate. it's a hell of a run.

[Live Dog]

** Barry faced the best his whole career.

Floydy has been a reluctant warrior the past 4 yrs. I've noted that he faced less of the current Ring or ********* top ranked fighters compared to many other ranked p4pers.

His problems started after Castillo whooped him the first fight pretty good. Fairplay, like Camacho after Rosario, Floydy goes from all action to defensive fighter.

He avoides the direct challenge by Zabby for all the marbles in a super fight to target the WBC Great Gatti for short money. He then challenges Winky after Wink announces he's moving up to middle. Team Wink shows up at Arum's office and Floydy's front porch with signed 50/50 contract, and Floydy disappears into the woodwork for a month. Hightailed it out the back door he did.

OK, he diddles around and Zabby loses to Big Foot Baldy, so Floydy fights a tune up against Mitchell to build his confidence against Zabby.

Then he's booed in his own home town against Bigfoot Baldy and just about cries in the Merchant interview afterward, and thus begins the first of three retirements and counting.

I would put it more simply. Camacho a better talent, longer career, better fighters, and Floydy more discipline. Floydy the WBC p4p greatest champ, and the current quarter p4per in the 4-5 belt era.

Cotto has beaten 6 going on 7 Ring ranked fighters.
Manny has 7 recent HOF bouts, about double Floydy's career total.
Joe undefeated, more title defenses, more belts held, the first dual Ring belt holder.

Floydy beat 3 of the current Ring ranked fighters, same as Ricky.

Hey, I don't make the rankings, just report them as anyone can see easily for themselves.

Cheers now..........

I'm not even sure this post makes sense but whatever.

[El Jesus]

tszyu but i heard kostya didn't want to fight floyd in the end so he chose hatton. don't know about earlier in their careers.

maybe spadafora at lightweight. casa? freitas at 130? not that i think any of those guys could have beat him. certainly would help his resume though.

wouldn't some of those guys have been better choices than say brusseles or sosa? i know guys need tuneups. but look at manny for example. he beats marco at 126 for the ring belt and then he fights marquez. those 2 were arguably the #1 and #2 at 126 at the time. manny does tuneups too but after he sandwiches them with the #1 or #2 in the division. manny in a space of 4-5 years has solidified his legacy. he goes from juanma for the 130 belt and his tuneup is a 135 beltholder. who knows who the hell he'll fight after david but if it's hatton or casa or juan or nate. it's a hell of a run.

You cant count brusseles and ill tell you why. Bruselles was the ONLY way to get to gatti because he was trying to force himself as a mandatory. Hatton wasnt going to fight him, tszyu like you said, chose hatton. He fought gatti likely with the intention of drawing other fighters into the fray.

Who were the beltholders then at 140, i think it was Harris, Tszyu Hatton and Gatti. Who else was there at 140? You had Corley, Judah had moved up.

The fight EVERYONE thought would be career defining was for him to sqaure off against Judah. Look how that turned out, judah lost, and it was already signed and had to be renegotiated. Essentially, judah losing hurt floyd in the end. Other than Tszyu, the only viable option was hatton, but hatton exposed himself by putting off the ****ing fight for so long that they were forced to fight at welterweight. Had they just fought floyd at 140 when he won the linear championship against tszyu, instead of fighting carlos maussa, we wouldnt have this issue.

Again, there were really not that many great options for floyd at 140 unfortunately. But like you said, other than say Casamayor and Freitas, whom he likely would have beaten anyway, there werent too many fighters that would have given him that "career" defining fight. Not to mention, floyd in reality is too good for his own good because guys hes supposed to struggle with, he makes it look easy and it downgrades the opponent.

You cant really compare with pacman because pacman came in when the division was at an alltime high, the latest issue of the ring even says that that period was the best in the history of the division.

[tredh]

tszyu but i heard kostya didn't want to fight floyd in the end so he chose hatton. don't know about earlier in their careers.

maybe spadafora at lightweight. casa? freitas at 130? not that i think any of those guys could have beat him. certainly would help his resume though.

wouldn't some of those guys have been better choices than say brusseles or sosa? i know guys need tuneups. but look at manny for example. he beats marco at 126 for the ring belt and then he fights marquez. those 2 were arguably the #1 and #2 at 126 at the time. manny does tuneups too but after he sandwiches them with the #1 or #2 in the division. manny in a space of 4-5 years has solidified his legacy. he goes from juanma for the 130 belt and his tuneup is a 135 beltholder. who knows who the hell he'll fight after david but if it's hatton or casa or juan or nate. it's a hell of a run.

PBF did the bold when he left 130 because his first 2 fights at 135 were Castillo who was the best at 135 at that time. Could PBF have a better resume of course. The thing I take into account also is that some fights don't happen for many different reason and its not always the bigger named fighters fault it didn't happen but that is the way it is made to look. In one of the promotions for the PBF vs. Hatton fight somebody from Hatton's camp talked about how that fight was in negotiations for 3 years. But plenty of people was screamin how PBF was ducking Hatton.

[wmute]

** This ain't complicated.

Just pull up the current Ring or ********* rankings and see how many fighters Cotto has beat and compare to Floydy, Manny, or anyone.

HOF fight is one against a probable/guarantee HOFer. Nobody doubts that Morales and Barrera are HOF bound. Possibly Marquez, and that's 7 fights for Manny right there.

Floydy has 4 at most. Oscar is a lock, but Castillo and Hatton are only possible..

do you mean division or p4p rankings? I guess the welter rankings

Note that Manny had 7 hof fights, 4 of them against opponents coming off losses, less impressive, no?...

A funny thing is Mayweather fought people of relevant size in Baldomir and De La Hoya, Manny went through 130 capturing the ring belt without fighting a SINGLE 130 fighter. not one. Manny not fighting Guzman doesnt matter I guess...

[wmute]

tszyu but i heard kostya didn't want to fight floyd in the end so he chose hatton. don't know about earlier in their careers.

maybe spadafora at lightweight. casa? freitas at 130? not that i think any of those guys could have beat him. certainly would help his resume though.

wouldn't some of those guys have been better choices than say brusseles or sosa? i know guys need tuneups. but look at manny for example. he beats marco at 126 for the ring belt and then he fights marquez. those 2 were arguably the #1 and #2 at 126 at the time. manny does tuneups too but after he sandwiches them with the #1 or #2 in the division. manny in a space of 4-5 years has solidified his legacy. he goes from juanma for the 130 belt and his tuneup is a 135 beltholder. who knows who the hell he'll fight after david but if it's hatton or casa or juan or nate. it's a hell of a run.

Certainly not Spaddy...