Calzaghe Doesn't Give A **** About Legacy...

[Vasyl’s dad]

Seriously, look closer at Calzaghe's record, and the records of his opponents. I am, I suppose, a Calzaghe fan, but I'm a fan of over a dozen other fighters, too, and when I tell you that I'm not in the least bias, you can count on it. Any way you slice it up, Calzaghe's record is impressive. Whether you know the names or not, or whether you know the names of the opponents' opponents, you can NOT possibly have enough "bums" in the entire Eastern Hemisphere to create good paper for that many fighters just to make one look good. Just because they weren't American based fighters (at least most of them) doesn't mean they were garbage. And like someone else said, every time he fought an American fighter that was supposed to "Expose" him, he beat the crap out of them. Even before the HOpkins fight, there were entire ****ing crowds that were going on about how "Bhop gonna knock his ass OUT!", or "BHop gonna SCHOOL that mu****a". Well, as it turned out, BHop did just about enough to ****ing lose, and can't blame anyone but himself for his inactivity, but now the outcry is "BHop is an old man, Can't give Joe credit for whupping an old man". Well, bull****. The same **** happened with the Lacy fight. "Lacy gonna whup his ass", "Lacy will KO that Welsh Sissy". And Lacy got the living **** beaten out of him, ****ING EMBARASSED in front of the entire world by sissy from Wales. And then Kessler, same damned thing....And the really funny thing was, Kessler isn't even American, but for some reason I guess many Americans thought Kessler was going to avenge Lacy....and then Kessler gets soundly beaten. Not beaten up, mind you, just beaten without any doubts at all. So, here we are, everybody says Calzaghe should fight Pavlik, 'cause "Kelly gonna KO that sissy from Wales". I don't ****ing blame Calzaghe a goddamned bit for not fighting Pavlik. Not only would he get little or no credit for beating Kelly (and he would, no doubt in my mind), he won't make half the money he would from a RJJ fight. And after all, he's retiring and has every right in the world to cash in before he does. God Bless him, says I, and I wish to hell I could do the same. And after all is said and done, he damn well should be in the top 25 in the last 30 years, and probably will be considered one of the greater fighters from this decade. And one of the few ever to retire undefeated.

Thats a Karma post right there. Pretty much exactly the way I feel for the most part, except I would still like to see a Pavlik fight which I have described up above and I think he would get credit for a Pavlik fight.

[roundingace]

not some living legend superfighter

LMAO, maybe in Wales he is. To the rest of us, he's an over amped average fighter who has NEVER EVER EVER EVER been truly tested. Nor will he be at the opponent choices he has made of late. Living legend - I'll give you the living part.

[dc6112]

Your not bias, you actually like a few brits, lol, just a lucky few, wow nice of you. Think you may have exposed some of your own bias there, whilst ironically trying to seem the opposite. I'm not bias, I actually like a few yanks, I would never say that. Slipping up saying you like a few (minority) of such and such, exposes your true inner critique/dislike of the majority.

The problem I and many have, especially of late, is with the obsessively trying at every opportunity, to undermine and put down, nit pick at a great active boxer. Why actively exaggerate the cons, minimise the pro's, subjectively invent stuff, and often try to put it off as fact? There trademarks of being jealous, bias and cynical.

Of the fighters you list, if Hops is so shot how come he beat Tarver and Winky Wright in the last few years? How comes he's still p4p, and seen as a tight match for Kessler and many others at the top level?

How comes on Joe Lacy is conveniently scrapped to the side as overrated, but is still #5 in the SMW division, and seen as a decent fight for Taylor?

Kessler is a top level fighter, and hopefully he'll go on to beat some so called names in Hops and or Pavlik to show remaining cynics this. Hopefully Pavlik as how would Kelly beat Joe when he can't beat Kessler.

Kelly's taylor made for Calzaghe and he's not been ducked, Joes at the end of his career and for once has a choice in his career, he always said RJJ was his 1st preference. Having just beaten Tito he has the style more likely to trouble him, and it'll be a great fight.

When dissing Joe now it's increasingly difficult to not be seen as having double standards. Often because those whom he's beaten are then pitched as good fights for another top boxer, or another boxer does the same thing he has. Ppl want Joe to face more and more fighters to prove themselves to them, when infact it's probably impossible. Some are setting an oddly high benchmark for him to be top level in they're eyes, whilst at the same time already saying those with less proven records like Pavlik are already top level and respected more for often subjective reasons. This is a biased double standard and why Calzaghe cannot win with some ppl.

Joe is a top elite active boxer, #1 at 2 weight divisions, favored by most within the sport, and fans of the sport alike as #1 in both, and better than most if not all in those divisions. Yet some of those same ppl he's pitched as being better than, are given a lot more credit and respect than Joe, often to levels indifferent with being balanced and reasonable.

This is just wrong on so many levels. Sigh...

First, let's get something straight. I simply said, "I like a few brits" referring to the boxers. I didn't say "I dislike most british citizens" so don't go putting words in my mouth, slick.Your over analyzing my statement WAYYY too much, you need to take your ritalin and calm down. I got no problems with Brits, I got no reason to have problems with anybody based on their country of origin.I was simply pointing out that of all the boxers I know, a few of the ones I enjoy watching happen to be British. I didn't even know there was this feud between Euros and Americans in boxing til i came to this site and encountered bottom feeding mongoloids like yourself who get pissy everytime one of your fighters gets called out on something and cries "Yank bias". I personally like a lot of fighters, I like Manny, I like Kessler, I like Josh Clottey, Margarito, Cotto. Hell I prolly like more foreign fighters than Americans. But what I don't like is you and the rest of Joe Calzaghe's mistress club trying to tell me things like

A. Joe is taking the Roy fight because Roy is more challenging. If you really believe that at this stage of their careers, A Jones fight would be more noteworthy and challenging than a Pavlik fight, from a pure risk factor, you need a serious reality check. It's funny that real Roy fans admit Pavlik is more of a challenge at this point, but now that Calzaghe snubbed his nose at Pavlik ,Roy Jones is this super skilled, still prime version of himself.
Gimme a break with the bull****.

B. Hopkins IS shot. He showed that when he fought Joe, or didn't you notice him faking the nut shot to get a 43 year old breather for 5 minutes, or the fact that he threw maybe 10 punches a round, at best. He beat Tarver because Tarver is 39 himself, slightly overrated and is very beatable at this stage in his career. Winky was fighting at 170, he never fought at that weight before, and was way out of his comfort zone weight wise. Those are decent wins, but let's be real, any top 5 LHW should be winning those fights at this point. Hopkins is shot dude, face it. The only reason he's even on
P4P lists is because of the great resume he has amassed over 15 years. Going by the last 5 years, he is no where near the fighter he used to be.

C. Lacy barely beat Peter Manfredo, he looked awful. He may be ranked #5, but he was overrated, anyone who's opinion is worth a damn will agree.

D. Kessler is a solid fighter, a clearly skilled, multi tooled boxer.I admitted that. But the fact remains he still hasn't beaten TOP competition, I stand by that. Again, I think most would agree there if they have an objective view.

E. Having just beaten Tito RJJ has the style more likely to trouble him? What? Did beating a 147 pound guy who doesn't like to run or train hard anymore, balooned to 170, hadn't fought in over 2 years and having him go a full 12 rounds with you now mean that your style is more difficult than the guy who has 30 KO's in 34 fights and took out some seriously stiff competition by putting every single one of their asses on the canvas? I guess I'm the *******.

OK, I'm never gonna make another post that long, I needed to get that off my chest though.

[black.ink]

........all i know is that for Joe to say Pavlik 'isn't ready' to face him and that he would beat him, then go to face Roy is just pure ignorance.

What has RJJ done to warrant a fight that Pavlik hasn't done. Pavlik is prime, RJJ isn't. He would get more credit for beating Kelly and it would do more for his 'legacy' then facing Roy at this stage in his career.

That being said, i hope Roy beats him into reality.

[abadger]

LMAO, maybe in Wales he is. To the rest of us, he's an over amped average fighter who has NEVER EVER EVER EVER been truly tested. Nor will he be at the opponent choices he has made of late. Living legend - I'll give you the living part.

Ha ha ha. You can't read!

[abadger]

Seriously, look closer at Calzaghe's record, and the records of his opponents. I am, I suppose, a Calzaghe fan, but I'm a fan of over a dozen other fighters, too, and when I tell you that I'm not in the least bias, you can count on it. Any way you slice it up, Calzaghe's record is impressive. Whether you know the names or not, or whether you know the names of the opponents' opponents, you can NOT possibly have enough "bums" in the entire Eastern Hemisphere to create good paper for that many fighters just to make one look good. Just because they weren't American based fighters (at least most of them) doesn't mean they were garbage. And like someone else said, every time he fought an American fighter that was supposed to "Expose" him, he beat the crap out of them. Even before the HOpkins fight, there were entire ****ing crowds that were going on about how "Bhop gonna knock his ass OUT!", or "BHop gonna SCHOOL that mu****a". Well, as it turned out, BHop did just about enough to ****ing lose, and can't blame anyone but himself for his inactivity, but now the outcry is "BHop is an old man, Can't give Joe credit for whupping an old man". Well, bull****. The same **** happened with the Lacy fight. "Lacy gonna whup his ass", "Lacy will KO that Welsh Sissy". And Lacy got the living **** beaten out of him, ****ING EMBARASSED in front of the entire world by sissy from Wales. And then Kessler, same damned thing....And the really funny thing was, Kessler isn't even American, but for some reason I guess many Americans thought Kessler was going to avenge Lacy....and then Kessler gets soundly beaten. Not beaten up, mind you, just beaten without any doubts at all. So, here we are, everybody says Calzaghe should fight Pavlik, 'cause "Kelly gonna KO that sissy from Wales". I don't ****ing blame Calzaghe a goddamned bit for not fighting Pavlik. Not only would he get little or no credit for beating Kelly (and he would, no doubt in my mind), he won't make half the money he would from a RJJ fight. And after all, he's retiring and has every right in the world to cash in before he does. God Bless him, says I, and I wish to hell I could do the same. And after all is said and done, he damn well should be in the top 25 in the last 30 years, and probably will be considered one of the greater fighters from this decade. And one of the few ever to retire undefeated.

Excellent post. Green K.

[abadger]

HOw objectively is Kelly Pavlik not the man to prove himself against?

Isn't this what Floyd critics want him to do, to fight young prime champions, not over the hill has-beens for the most amount of money - (even if some think that Delahoya can beat him if they fought again..just like some do with RJJ beating Joe.)

Logic - Pavlik is undefeated, The REAL champion of his division. Has defeated the previous REAL champ in Taylor twice now and eliminated him off of the top 10 P4P list. Pavlik himself is now a Top 10 P4P fighter.

That's logic. Roy like you said on another thread hasn't beaten anybody credible in years.

Lets be real. As I pointed out in my initial post. Kelly is a MW champion with basically three meaningful career wins, and I think 2 title defences. None of his opposition was genuinely incredible, Kelly is just the best young fighter near Joe's weight class that America currently has. Lacy was in the same position, so too was the non-American Kessler, Joe beat both after plenty of people said about them what they say about Pavlik now. And they were in his weight class!

How anyone can talk of Joe "proving himself" against Pavlik is beyond me. If anything Pavlik needs to earn a shot at Joe, for which moving up to SMW would probably be a good start. Kelly right now, is in the same position Joe was years ago, and I repeat, the notion that fighting Pavlik would prove anything is ludicrous.

[Pullcounter]

Lets be real. As I pointed out in my initial post. Kelly is a MW champion with basically three meaningful career wins, and I think 2 title defences. None of his opposition was genuinely incredible, Kelly is just the best young fighter near Joe's weight class that America currently has. Lacy was in the same position, so too was the non-American Kessler, Joe beat both after plenty of people said about them what they say about Pavlik now. And they were in his weight class!

How anyone can talk of Joe "proving himself" against Pavlik is beyond me. If anything Pavlik needs to earn a shot at Joe, for which moving up to SMW would probably be a good start. Kelly right now, is in the same position Joe was years ago, and I repeat, the notion that fighting Pavlik would prove anything is ludicrous.

calzaghe doesn't need to prove anything... he'll probably go down as a top 4 all time super middleweight champion

but a fight against roy jones at this stage of roy's career is an obviously bad fight and not at all as challenging as a fight against a young champion like pavlik.

[abadger]

calzaghe doesn't need to prove anything... he'll probably go down as a top 4 all time super middleweight champion

but a fight against roy jones at this stage of roy's career is an obviously bad fight and not at all as challenging as a fight against a young champion like pavlik.

Exactly. I would add though, that while Roy Jones is not the most challenging matchup on paper (I think Joe will win easily), automatically assuming that Pavlik is actually a harder fight is taking an awful lot on trust. Imagine if it were not Pavlik we were talking about now, but Lacy or even Kessler, people would (and did) say that that was the 'harder' fight that Joe should take. Then when he took it, won pretty easily, suddenly people don't care about that 'harder' fight anymore and say it was too easy a win. It's happened before. Twice.

I can't stress enough that all the talk about Pavlik is an EXACT repeat, as someone said, of the "he will KO that Welsh sissy" chat that preceded both the Lacy and Kessler fights. People really need to realise this.

[BraveheartNYC]

I think a lot of people are looking at this wrong, I think Calzaghe will fight Pavlik after the Jones fight! The reason he picked Hopkins and Roy is for over ten years of Joe's life as a fighter he has heard these men are a class above him (like they said about Lacy, who would ''Take Joe's head off if they every met''). Look at what got said on here before and after he BEAT Hopkins. For Joe's piece of mind he has to beat those two, and all this talk about well now they old... Calzaghe is no young fella himself. They wouldn't go to Wales, and why should Joe have come over here back then. 50,000 people to see you?! Chanting your name!! Give that up for a couple of thousand?! To prove yourself to the America fight fans? I wouldn't. To have that many of your own countrymen sing your name or come along on what has been a long run of success is more important then money, or fame from the outside world. Now that he has done all that it's time to get those names that WOULDN'T go fight him in Wales (Because they had no reason to fight outside the States). Yea they may all be a little older but a name is still a name. Also to say Joe never came over to fight these guys when they were in they prime is a bit of a cheap way out I feel, Those same guys never went over to fight Calzaghe so both sides are kinda at fault for these fights not happening sooner.