Jorge Linares : ATG?

[!! Shawn]

Guerrero was considered to be a top talent when he was coming up. This hard working, solid overachiever image you fellas are carving out for him is about as misguided as anything in this thread.

Oscar Larios is well past his best. A solid name, but that's where it ends. I would like to see these guys fight. It's a clash of two young, talented, top ranked featherweights. Who knows, maybe it's a poor man's Morales/Barrera.

I am so confused. Have you guys actually seen Guerrero fight? He is not all that slick, he is not all that fast, he is not all that smart, his combinations are not all that fluid. He is a solid fighter, but he is not a bright shining star. He is not the most accurate puncher, he is not the most devastating puncher, he is simply pretty good in most categories.

Not to mention his biggest weakness. He does not mix his defense and offense. He is either on defense, or offense, not both.

Don't get me wrong, Guerrero is a very good fighter, but Jorge Linares he is not.

[!! Shawn]

You luck to slurp a younger fighter off Shawn, very knowledgable guy but **** you know how to ride a bandwagon

I created the bandwagon. I will feel free to ride it all I want. I have been touting the praises of Linares since the first time I saw him. Just as I am a fervent supporter of Ivan Calderon and Yuriorkis Gamboa.

Honestly though, bandwagon is the ******est word ever. You should be ashamed of yourself.

What exactly is wrong with recognizing a young fighter with incredible talent and giving him credit for it?

[!! Shawn]

One of the most gifted champs in boxing,he has too much skills,he has all the potential to be great,i can see him beating any champs at featherweight and superfeatherweight,hes that talented,the crazy thing is,hes only 22

And i think he would beat Guerrero to a pulp,Guerrero gets very disheartened when he is being outboxed,take a look at his fight with Orlando Salido,even if basic Salido was using a substance,he got frustrated,Linares victory over Larios is better then any Guerrero win

I agree. The people claiming Guerrero would beat Linares have either a) never seen Linares fight or b) Never actually seen Guerrero fight.

If you really look at it seriously, Linares is clearly a cut or two above Guerrero.

[oldgringo]

I am so confused. Have you guys actually seen Guerrero fight? He is not all that slick, he is not all that fast, he is not all that smart, his combinations are not all that fluid. He is a solid fighter, but he is not a bright shining star. He is not the most accurate puncher, he is not the most devastating puncher, he is simply pretty good in most categories.

I'm confused too. Is Guerrero solid, pretty good, or very good? You seem to change your mind a lot.

Guerrero has relatively fast hands, very good punching power, great size/physical strength for the weight division, and a good amount of experience.

I don't see stellar defense or power from Linares, two things which would be to his detrimental to his success against a guy like Guerrero. Capable ability in those categories of course, but if he gets hit enough he just might fall over.

I agree. The people claiming Guerrero would beat Linares have either a) never seen Linares fight or b) Never actually seen Guerrero fight.

If you really look at it seriously, Linares is clearly a cut or two above Guerrero.

I have watched several Guerrero fights, a few early performances and most of his recent fights, and I have seen each of Linares' last three fights. Linares is a great young fighter, but he has never been in with a young, prime champion caliber guy like Guerrero. Guerrero on the other hand would be fighting the most skilled fighter he has ever faced.

If they were matched with each other in their next appearances I think it would be an awfully close fight...and who has claimed Guerrero would beat Linares outright? Certainly not myself. I wouldn't place money on either guy.

[Mech.]

Guerrero has relatively fast hands, very good punching power, great size/physical strength for the weight division, and a good amount of experience.

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Sounds like a solid fighter that trains hard. Id have to disagree on his punching power though, he has stopped who? A chinny Litzau, and he did that with skill, not power. Same thing with Martin Honorio, if you saw Honorio's fight with luevano you'd see he was open to that straight left. Honorio was vulnerable and Guerrero was smart enough to throw, it wasnt KO power that did it.

[!! Shawn]

I'm confused too. Is Guerrero solid, pretty good, or very good? You seem to change your mind a lot.

Guerrero has relatively fast hands, very good punching power, great size/physical strength for the weight division, and a good amount of experience.

I don't see stellar defense or power from Linares, two things which would be to his detrimental to his success against a guy like Guerrero. Capable ability in those categories of course, but if he gets hit enough he just might fall over.



I have watched several Guerrero fights, a few early performances and most of his recent fights, and I have seen each of Linares' last three fights. Linares is a great young fighter, but he has never been in with a young, prime champion caliber guy like Guerrero. Guerrero on the other hand would be fighting the most skilled fighter he has ever faced.

If they were matched with each other in their next appearances I think it would be an awfully close fight...and who has claimed Guerrero would beat Linares outright? Certainly not myself. I wouldn't place money on either guy.

You have misrepresented my statements. I did not say Guerrero was pretty good, I said he was pretty good in every category. He is a very good fighter, but Linares is in verge of becoming a great fighter.

I suggest you rewatch Linares fights. His defense is much better than you think it is. He has a very good blocking and countering game. His first line of defense is his head. He will out think you, and take away all your tools. He will make you not WANT to throw your punches any more. People forget that effective counter punching is a defense.

A jab down the middle of a right hand pushes the right hand to the outside and protects your chin. Defense is not about not getting hit at all, it is about not getting hit cleanly. James Toney is a great example, its not that you couldn't hit Toney, its that the punches you could land were so insignificant as to mean nothing.

Any punch you land will be countered with something better, or will be a glancing blow.

I have seen Guerrero stunned several times. He is open to getting hit flush in the face, he can move his head pretty well, but when he is throwing punches, he is very very hittable. He also lunges in on his punches quite a bit.

Guerrero smells like an early KO for Linares. Guerrero will lunge in with a lead left hand, he will walk into a quick hard left uppercut - strait right - left hook combination. He will wobble and work his defense. He will not be able to adapt because he cannot work his defense and offense at the same time. Every time he throws he will get countered, either he gets discouraged and stops throwing, leading to a wide UD for Linares, or he keeps pressing the action and gets knocked out.

[!! Shawn]

Sounds like a solid fighter that trains hard. Id have to disagree on his punching power though, he has stopped who? A chinny Litzau, and he did that with skill, not power. Same thing with Martin Honorio, if you saw Honorio's fight with luevano you'd see he was open to that straight left. Honorio was vulnerable and Guerrero was smart enough to throw, it wasnt KO power that did it.

I agree that Guerrero's power is a tad bit overrated. He is a break you down fighter. He hit Litzau flush many times, and Litzau is very chinny.

[oldgringo]

Sounds like a solid fighter that trains hard. Id have to disagree on his punching power though, he has stopped who? A chinny Litzau, and he did that with skill, not power. Same thing with Martin Honorio, if you saw Honorio's fight with luevano you'd see he was open to that straight left. Honorio was vulnerable and Guerrero was smart enough to throw, it wasnt KO power that did it.

He has knocked out or stopped the majority of his opponents lately. Dropped and stopped Abazi, a smaller man, on punishment, beat Aiken into submission, he largely dominated and KOed a chinny Litzau, avenged his loss to G. Diaz with a body shot I believe, the higlight reel Honorio KO, etc. No steel chinned guys in there I suppose.

He stopped Litzau with skill? He stopped him with a combination of skill and power with that excellent uppercut/right hook combination. Forgive me if I'm making him sound like Edwin Valero or something, but Guerrero carries very good power in his left hand in my opinion. Enough to hurt his opponent or finish a fight with one shot. I think that's fair Rudy.

The Honorio KO was impressive however you slice it. It was sharp, accurate and poweful. I missed the Luevano fight, so I can't comment on why Luevano was unable to put away Honorio.

[oldgringo]

You have misrepresented my statements. I did not say Guerrero was pretty good, I said he was pretty good in every category. He is a very good fighter, but Linares is in verge of becoming a great fighter.

I suggest you rewatch Linares fights. His defense is much better than you think it is. He has a very good blocking and countering game. His first line of defense is his head. He will out think you, and take away all your tools. He will make you not WANT to throw your punches any more. People forget that effective counter punching is a defense.

A jab down the middle of a right hand pushes the right hand to the outside and protects your chin. Defense is not about not getting hit at all, it is about not getting hit cleanly. James Toney is a great example, its not that you couldn't hit Toney, its that the punches you could land were so insignificant as to mean nothing.

Any punch you land will be countered with something better, or will be a glancing blow.

I have seen Guerrero stunned several times. He is open to getting hit flush in the face, he can move his head pretty well, but when he is throwing punches, he is very very hittable. He also lunges in on his punches quite a bit.

Guerrero smells like an early KO for Linares. Guerrero will lunge in with a lead left hand, he will walk into a quick hard left uppercut - strait right - left hook combination. He will wobble and work his defense. He will not be able to adapt because he cannot work his defense and offense at the same time. Every time he throws he will get countered, either he gets discouraged and stops throwing, leading to a wide UD for Linares, or he keeps pressing the action and gets knocked out.

Interesting. No need for me to re-watch the fights, but I look forward to seeing him fight in the future. I saw capable defense and power, but nothing spectacular. You appear to be very high on this kid as do a few others here, so I am eager to watch him fight a top Featherweight sometime soon. With 25+ fights under his belt, you'd figure he'd start fighting some live opponents some time soon.

Someone before mentioned a fight with Luevano...that could be a good one.

[!! Shawn]

Doesn't get more highlight reel than that.