what if: James Toney vs. Joe Calzaghe @ 168 (Prime for prime)

[IMDAZED]

That's why it was better, also the fact that Toney managed to stop Barkley although Calzaghe would've stopped Lacy as well had Lacy's cornermen known their fighter as well as Barkley's cornermen did.

Fighters like Barkley and Lacy never want to quit, they always want that one more round so you have to pull them out.
Just look at Lacy now, nothing like he used to be because of the prolonged beating he took.

Lacy was never that good. People always say, "oh you weren't saying that before yada yada." Well...

1. Yes I was.

2. So? Hindsight is 20/20. And in retrospect, Lacy wasn't that good.

But in all seriousness, I knew that when I saw him struggling with the likes of Syd Vanderpool and Rubin Williams. Dude was just so overrated. Can't put Barkley and Lacy in the same paragraph, let alone sentence.

[BEHEMOTH]

Calzaghe face down, twitching with blood streaming out of his ear, and **** running down his leg.

Toney by manslaughter.

[IMDAZED]

Nevermind, wasnt the stuff of legends anyways.

Point is, i think people mistake the difference between high output and effective output, calzaghe could throw alot of shots against toney, but if they get blocked or dont land, its not effective, he comes in so unprotected, doesnt have a particulary meaningful jab to offset toney, calzaghe would be leading all the time with all kind of shots, and toney would counter him so hard it wouldnt even be funny.

Agreed.

And not only that, Toney throws a bunch of punches too. I believe only four times has a fighter landed over 400 punches...Toney has done it three of those times.

[TheGreatA]

Lacy was never that good, that's true but he wouldn't have struggled with Tsypko and Manfredo before the Calzaghe fight and the shoulder injury.

He was a strong fighter who brought pressure and punched hard, that's enough to beat most of the guys out there.
It was enough to get Lacy a title and I think he could still win a title if he fought with aggression like he used to. Now he is way too passive.

Barkley at his best would knock Lacy out cold though.

[IMDAZED]

Lacy was never that good, that's true but he wouldn't have struggled with Tsypko and Manfredo before the Calzaghe fight and the shoulder injury.

He was a strong fighter who brought pressure and punched hard, that's enough to beat most of the guys out there.
It was enough to get Lacy a title and I think he could still win a title if he fought with aggression like he used to.

Barkley at his best would knock Lacy out cold though.

You kidding? He struggled with Rubin Williams...sure he would've struggled with Tsypko.

[Kilrain]

James Toney.

His right hand counter, as he leans off and tucks his chin behind his shoulder and anticipates an opponents lead punch, is a thing of beauty. And it works every time, the only opponent it hasn't worked against was Roy Jones, and that was because Jones was too quick coming out of his own punches for Toney to land the shot regularly. He did land it a couple of times, but he had no energy in that fight as well so it wasn't as effective. You put the Toney from the Barkley fight in with Jones - and I dont care what anyone says, it's gonna be a much closer affair.

Anyway, the right hand against Calzaghe is an obvious shot, and its worked many times with guys like Kessler, Reid, and of course Hopkins who needed to only land one to put Joe on the mat. James' right is a killer, and if you're talking about him in his prime he lands it AT WILL (watch the first McCallum fight). Calzaghe obviously has the better workrate, but James' used to get outworked quite a lot, wasn't a big deal because he made his punches count and made opponents pay for their misses. Calzaghe doesn't have the power to trouble him, and most of those slapping-round-the-head punches will only graze/miss anyway.

Envisaging this fight I see Calzaghe setting a very fast pace as always, Toney landing cruel right hand counters and flurries inside, landing the better, cleaner eye-catching blows and starting to really pick Joe off in the eighth, ninth and tenth rounds. Toney by late stoppage or decision.

[SupremeElectron]

Prime James Toney beats the brakes off Joe Calzaghe. James Toney knew how to counterpunch with the best of them. His beard was unquestionably IRON and his boxing IQ was FREUD-ISH.

James Toney could also chop up guys with surgeon like precision. The guy brought power to the heavyweight division for christ's sake.

Joe Calzaghe or any other modern day super-middleweight will never have to face a guy like James Toney. They should bow down and thank the Lord for that.

[Thread Stealer]

It'd be ugly as hell. Funny thing is nobody at the time thought Toney was half as good as many seem to now think he was.

People thought extremely highly of Toney at the time, once he left 160. He looked way more consistent title fights at 168 against Barkley, Thornton, Littles, and Williams than the guy at 160 who had a lot of close calls.

He was ranked very high on the P4P rankings.

[Steak]

Many people who are picking Toney by TKO are actually British/European, it's not completely outlandish. I don't really see it happening but it could happen.

Toney carried a lot of power in his counter right (the punch Calzaghe is the most vulnerable to) and he finished a fight well when he had to (for example against Nunn and Littles).
Calzaghe has a tendency to lose focus during fights and he often gets hit with punches he shouldn't be hit by...

If Joe was dropped like he was against Mitchell and Hopkins, Toney would go right to work.

Toney did knock out some guys even at cruiserweight.


Toney at SMW


Toney at CW


Toney's performance against Iran Barkley was every bit as good as Calzaghe's against Jeff Lacy, if not even better. 4:24 in the vid, how is that for handspeed?

you are consistantly one of the best posters on this site. I enjoy how you back up what you say with boxing knowledge, logic, and videos for those that are unfamiliar with what youre saying. Gotta admit that I often copy how you use youtube as evidence whenever I start discussing things.
and a good job to Thread Stealer too, hes also seems like he really knows his stuff

Keep up the good work yall, haha

[Kilrain]

That Prince Williams KO was devastating, his legs turned to rubber, that was a real close fight too, Toney seemed to always come out on the right side of close sc****s back then. Luck changed with the two Griffin fights, damn, Toney was very unlucky to go 0-2 there, I had him winning both