what if: James Toney vs. Joe Calzaghe @ 168 (Prime for prime)

[pesticid]

Another poster that is taking Toney's worst performances and trying to find something to criticize him about. What about Calzaghe being countered and almost beaten by Robin Reid? What about Calzaghe being hurt against Byron Mitchell? What about Calzaghe being countered at will by Bernard Hopkins and winning a controversial decision? He is a great fighter, but he hasn't look as good as Toney has beaten top level opposition.

Fact is Toney's got plenty of defeats against average and below-average fighters. Fact is Zaghe's got none. Fact is James Toney's defense is not what you guys make it out to be.

For the record, I got almost all of Toney fights and he is my favourite fighter simply cause he was one bad dude with skill. But people saying that he'll destroy Zaghe don't know what they are talking about.

[slicksouthpaw16]

The same way Tibery hurt him over 12, with acummulation of punches.

Unmotivated or not he got a gift decision against a below-average fighter who stunned him every other round over 12. Let's not forget Drake Thadzi, who was another sub-fighter. How about Montel Griffin. The guy is like 5 7.

With performances like that it's not out of the question that Calzaghe whoops.

Watch him when hes at his best, not when he is unmotivated and out of shape. He performed well in his best fights(with the exception of the Roy Jones bout) and he has always came prepared when he really wanted the win. Do you really think that he would come in out of shape against Calzaghe and fight the way he fought against Tiberi? Please.You are only being a critic and Calzaghe can be criticized worse than Toney.

[pesticid]

Watch him when hes at his best, not when he is unmotivated and out of shape. He performed well in his best fights(with the exception of the Roy Jones bout) and he has always came prepared when he really wanted the win. Do you really think that he would come in out of shape against Calzaghe and fight the way he fought against Tiberi? Please.You are only being a critic and Calzaghe can be criticized worse than Toney.

If he can come unmotivated against Roy Jones, it's very possible that he comes unmotivated against Zaghe, especially since Zaghe slaps. Wouldn't you think?

[tyson]

Prime for prime, bitches.

Not worst performances vs worst performances.

Toney would win, no doubt about it.
It would be entertaining and close for awhile, but Toney would eventually make Joe very wary of throwing punches.

[pesticid]

Prime for prime, bitches.

Not worst performances vs worst performances.

Toney would win, no doubt about it.
It would be entertaining and close for awhile, but Toney would eventually make Joe very wary of throwing punches.

Toney's got a puncher's chance although I don't see him catching up to Zaghe.

[Kris Silver]

Another poster that is taking Toney's worst performances and trying to find something to criticize him about. nono: What about Calzaghe being countered and almost beaten by Robin Reid? What about Calzaghe being hurt against Byron Mitchell? What about Calzaghe being countered at will by Bernard Hopkins and winning a controversial decision? He is a great fighter, but he hasn't look as good as Toney has beaten top level opposition.

The irony is pretty high there. You criticise someone picking the worst fights of your fighter, then immediately, go on to do the same, to another.

Robin Reid - Calzaghe was recovering from food poisoning, and elbow/hand injuries, one of which previously broken. He won. He said immediately after the fight it was his worst performance.

Byron Mitchell - did not really hurt Calzaghe, he was back up within seconds, and knocked Byron out within a minute afterwards, pretty key detail.

Bernard Hopkins - Whom has looked good against him? Even RJJ struggled years ago. He smothered Joe the same way he has all his opponents. It was especially effective against Joe as we knew it would be, but Joe showed patience and overcame to win a clear decision in most people outside and inside boxing's view.

I'd recommend watching the Kessler fight, whom is another underated fighter. He gave Joe a tough fight, and many believe would give a good fight and even beat Hops, Johnson and the likes. Joe looked very good in that fight. Not as good as against Lacy whom was supposed to be the next best thing, but hey he's still no. 5 SMW so that's pretty up there still to, and he was seriously schooled in an exhibition esk display.

[pesticid]

Most of the prestige fighters at middleweight Toney either lost to or won on points. He also lost a couple against bums.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Fact is Toney's got plenty of defeats against average and below-average fighters. Fact is Zaghe's got none. Fact is James Toney's defense is not what you guys make it out to be.

For the record, I got almost all of Toney fights and he is my favourite fighter simply cause he was one bad dude with skill. But people saying that he'll destroy Zaghe don't know what they are talking about.

Fact is that you are biased and pro Calzaghe. Thats fine, but you can't have an argument with someone that picks the worse fights of someone's career and starts to complain about it. According to your logic, Foreman should have beaten Jimmy Young because young lost to Cooney as well as lesser oppoents. Young was never a champion and was considered an ''average'' fighter back in the late 60s-late 80s. So, is Foreman not an all time great? He was not mentally prepared for that fight, just Toney wasn't in those fights nor was he in shape.

[IMDAZED]

Unmotivated or not he got a gift decision against a below-average fighter who stunned him every other round over 12. Let's not forget Drake Thadzi, who was another sub-fighter. How about Montel Griffin. The guy is like 5 7.

With performances like that it's not out of the question that Calzaghe whoops.

LOL. That version of Montell Griffen beats everyone on Calzaghe's dossier.

And yes, it's pretty dumb to take a fighter's worse performance and base a prospective fight on that. In fact, any matchmaker will tell you that's what people do; they'll send you a fighter's worst fight to lull you to sleep. So matchmakers (the good ones) always request for more than one tape when watching a fighter they haven't seen before. And here we have a novice message board poster doing the novice thing.

[pesticid]

Toney's biggest victories:

Michale Nunn
Iran Barkley
Reggie Johnson
Mike McCallum
Vasiliy Jirov
Evander Holyfield

Toney's biggest losses:
Dave Tibery (SD victory for Toney but watch the fight and tell me Toney didn't get beat up badly)
Roy Jones
Montel Griffin
Drake Thadzi