If I was Roy I'd just take like 30-70 and shut up...

[IMDAZED]

Agree with most of what you say. My point about the "WHO?" was exactly as you say, you can do the same to any fighter. I've posted on this subject many times and sometimes can't be bothered to repeat myself, but basically my view is that the standard of opposition Joe, Hopkins and Jones faced throughout their careers is broadly similar, with Jones and Hopkins having a few bigger names than Calzaghe has to give those lists a lift. I also do not like disparaging fighters as bums, and in general believe that the lower class fighters on the resumes of all three are generally better than they are credited with being. They all have a few cans, sure, but lots of contenders and champs with good reputations too.

I rate Calzaghe as p4p top 3 in the world and I think his ATG status is up in the air, depending on what else he can do, but I think his unbeaten record and long reign as champ make him a credible contender. I believe Jones is the "greatest" of the trio, as well as the most obviously talented and most obviously flawed. In terms of legacy I don't see much to separate Hopkins and Calzaghe TBH, their careers are remarkably similar. IMO both derive most of their status from their long reigns, and I think Joe's win over Kessler is better than Hopkins's over Winky, De La Hoya or Tarver, although we'll have to wait and see what Kessler can do in future to see if I'm right. If anything I'd say that Calzaghe has the better legacy of the two, but I am British and a Calzaghe fan so this is certainly affecting my thinking. Hopefully you can agree that there is not all that much separating Hopkins and Calzaghe in the all time stakes?

Excellent points but in no way is a win over Kessler CLOSE to a win over Tarver. At all.

For starters, Hopkins leaped TWO divisions to fight the light heavyweight champ. STRIKE ONE.

Tarver, having beaten guys like Roy Jones, Glen Johnson, Clinton Woods, and many others, has a far better resume than Kessler. STRIKE TWO.

Finally, yes, I think you should wait and see what Kessler does with his career. If he goes the Lacy route, how good does Calzaghe's resume look then? Tarver, on the other hand, just regained a title. STRIKE THREE.

[TonyJ]

With all due respect, we're talking Finance here, not who's buying the $25 seats in the bleachers. Sure Calzaghe can pull 35k for Manfredo but he'd still get paid more to fight Jones in front of 12k in Vegas. Get my drift?

Calzaghe-Manfredo tickets started at 100$. Americans need to sell 25$ tickets to fill a stadium (like DLH).

[IMDAZED]

Calzaghe-Manfredo tickets started at 100$. Americans need to sell 25$ tickets to fill a stadium (like DLH).

That's nice to know. Thanks for the tidbit. Feel free to answer ANY of the plenty questions I posed in my previous post to you. I believe they are far more relevant than what's the cheaper (or most expensive - why didn't you bring that up?) ticket.

[TonyJ]

Calzaghe-Hopkins would have done better in Wales.

Calzaghe-Jones won't be on PPV anyway. Calzaghe is not a big name in the US and Jones is no way a huge PPV-draw like Tito. Look at the numbers against the tiger und Prince. I don't wann take anything away from Jones because it's more important to be a good fighter than a huge draw.

[abadger]

Excellent points but in no way is a win over Kessler CLOSE to a win over Tarver. At all.

For starters, Hopkins leaped TWO divisions to fight the light heavyweight champ. STRIKE ONE.

Tarver, having beaten guys like Roy Jones, Glen Johnson, Clinton Woods, and many others, has a far better resume than Kessler. STRIKE TWO.

Finally, yes, I think you should wait and see what Kessler does with his career. If he goes the Lacy route, how good does Calzaghe's resume look then? Tarver, on the other hand, just regained a title. STRIKE THREE.

You points are good ones, and Tarver is for me Hopkins's best win, but in truth I just don't rate Tarver that highly. I read somewhere someone describing him as an "opportunist champion" and I think that's about right. For me he is a good-but-not-great boxer who has managed to take belts in fortuitous circumstances. Woods and Johnson are decent, but not fantastic and Tarver would have been destroyed by a prime Jones.


However, I am the first to say that a boxers record counts so I should give Tarver credit I suppose and therefore Hopkins as well. As for Kessler, to me he looks the real deal, but I agree Tarver on paper has the better record.
________
SUZUKI GT750 HISTORY

[IMDAZED]

Calzaghe-Hopkins would have done better in Wales.

It being in Wales doesn't stop it from being on Pay-Per-View now does it?

Again, what about my other questions? What's Calzaghe's career high payday? Career high in pay-per-view?

Ok then.

[IMDAZED]

You points are good ones, and Tarver is for me Hopkins's best win, but in truth I just don't rate Tarver that highly. I read somewhere someone describing him as an "opportunist champion" and I think that's about right. For me he is a good-but-not-great boxer who has managed to take belts in fortuitous circumstances. Woods and Johnson are decent, but not fantastic and Tarver would have been destroyed by a prime Jones.


However, I am the first to say that a boxers record counts so I should give Tarver credit I suppose and therefore Hopkins as well. As for Kessler, to me he looks the real deal, but I agree Tarver on paper has the better record.

Whether you rate Tarver highly or not is of little relevance. He beat Woods, Johnson, Eric Harding, and Roy Jones (twice). His resume is WORLD'S better than Kessler's.

Plus, Hops moved up two divisions to do it - while Tarver was at the peak of his powers.

Sorry, this one isn't really up for debate.

[TonyJ]

It being in Wales doesn't stop it from being on Pay-Per-View now does it?

Again, what about my other questions? What's Calzaghe's career high payday? Career high in pay-per-view?

Ok then.

Man Calzaghe wasn't a big draw during the last years. But he got over 4M for the Manfredo and Kessler-fights each. (Kessler arround 5M $). DO you think that Jones could do same numbers against Manfredo and Kessler? Anyway Calzaghe doesn't need Jones for a LV fight. I have never seen more expensive tickets than for Hopkins-Calzaghe starting at 250$. But over 10000 ppl came from GB. Do you think Planet Holywood would have paid 11M fee to host the event without brits crossing the atlantic?
There is no way Jones could bring over 10K ppl watching him at LV. No way.

[IMDAZED]

Man Calzaghe wasn't a big draw during the last years. But he got over 4M for the Manfredo and Kessler-fights each. (Kessler arround 5M $). DO you think that Jones could do same numbers against Manfredo and Kessler? Anyway Calzaghe doesn't need Jones for a LV fight. I have never seen more expensive tickets than for Hopkins-Calzaghe starting at 250$. But over 10000 ppl came from GB. Do you think Planet Holywood would have paid 11M fee to host the event without brits crossing the atlantic?
There is no way Jones could bring over 10K ppl watching him at LV. No way.

Haha. Jones was getting 5 million to fight Richard Frazier. And gettign 12 million viewers on HBO to watch it. What's your point?

And Jones did 560k for John Ruiz. This is finance, not who can fill up the cheap seats.

Furthermore, Planet Hollywood took a LOSS on Calzaghe-Hopkins. A LOSS.

So Calzaghe's career high payday is a regular one for Jones. Thank you.

[abadger]

Whether you rate Tarver highly or not is of little relevance. He beat Woods, Johnson, Eric Harding, and Roy Jones (twice). His resume is WORLD'S better than Kessler's.

Plus, Hops moved up two divisions to do it - while Tarver was at the peak of his powers.

Sorry, this one isn't really up for debate.

I don't think I'm the only person in the world who considers Tarver to be a level below the best, and I don't think I'm alone in believing Kessler is the better fighter, so I'd say its always up for debate!

However, even if I don't believe Tarver is an incredible win for Hopkins, I agree that at this point that judgement is only an opinion, and currently the facts and belts are on Tarver's side.

Nice to be able to argue with someone who has a meaningful opinion.
________
Amatuer xxx