If I was Roy I'd just take like 30-70 and shut up...

[IMDAZED]

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.ph...r_Pound--1990s

I've said it time and time again - a lot of these posters are new to the boxing scene. And completely ignorant to the past. Or rationalize the past with their own ignorant thoughts when they are confronted with it. Give respect where respect is due.

Can't believe someone said there was no pound for pound lists back then.

[IMDAZED]

when did bernard say that?

They're not going to fight no Jones man. I'll bet you a lunch and dinner that they don't make that. They're going to milk him.

Bernard Hopkins


To G. Leon last week.

[abadger]

See, that's what i don't understand. Be gets to be top 5 in allot of people's minds for beating a 43 year old version of Bernard Hopkins after being dropped on the first. I mean wtf? I can't think of any other reason than being white for it to be so. Think about it.

Casamayor beat an undefeated young fighter against all odds in a thrilling fight ending in a TKO stoppage. Was he even mentioned to be top 5 p4p? No.
Nate Campbell has done the same thing only by decision and also against all odds and was forgotten about the day after the fight!

This is why i consider Calzaghe and specially his fans, an insult to boxing.

Some of you act as though Joe Calzaghe dropped out of the sky just prior to the Hopkins fight without a win, record or title to his name.

I can hardly believe that I am still having to post this but Joe Calzaghe is the ten year undefeated SMW champ, he cleaned out the division before he faced Hopkins and is now the Ring LHW champ too! You all say he never beat anybody, but I could go through the record of Jones or Hopkins and add a big fat "WHO?" next to the vast majority of names on those lists. Calzaghe faced plenty of good oppo, and took his title from Chris Eubank.

The reason no other fighter gets placed p4p is because virtually no fighter in history, let alone the present day has as good a record as Joe's. Hopkins was in many p4p top 5s for God's sake, and if anything is being forgoten now it is that! Kessler was an unbeaten two weight champ! Lacy was another unbeaten champ! Hopkins was the Ring LHW champ! That is why Calzaghe is a p4p top fighter. It astounds me that non-Calzaghe fans are so happy to deny the tangible achievements of a boxer just because he is not one of their personal favourites. It seems for some people it is impossible to accept that a fighter they do not personally like or support has proved himself to be one of the best in the business.

If you consider Calzaghe and his fans an insult to boxing you betray your own ignorance about the sport, and an incredible ability to ignore the evidence of your own eyes. If anything is an insult to boxing, that is.
________
How to roll a joint

[kayjay]

Calzaghe's career pre-Lacy was lacking in high-level challengers but it was not an Ottke/Erdei situation where he was hiding a belt. He really did fight the best in his division for ten years

[IMDAZED]

Some of you act as though Joe Calzaghe dropped out of the sky just prior to the Hopkins fight without a win, record or title to his name.

I can hardly believe that I am still having to post this but Joe Calzaghe is the ten year undefeated SMW champ, he cleaned out the division before he faced Hopkins and is now the Ring LHW champ too! You all say he never beat anybody, but I could go through the record of Jones or Hopkins and add a big fat "WHO?" next to the vast majority of names on those lists. Calzaghe faced plenty of good oppo, and took his title from Chris Eubank.

The reason no other fighter gets placed p4p is because virtually no fighter in history, let alone the present day has as good a record as Joe's. Hopkins was in many p4p top 5s for God's sake, and if anything is being forgoten now it is that! Kessler was an unbeaten two weight champ! Lacy was another unbeaten champ! Hopkins was the Ring LHW champ! That is why Calzaghe is a p4p top fighter. It astounds me that non-Calzaghe fans are so happy to deny the tangible achievements of a boxer just because he is not one of their personal favourites. It seems for some people it is impossible to accept that a fighter they do not personally like or support has proved himself to be one of the best in the business.

If you consider Calzaghe and his fans an insult to boxing you betray your own ignorance about the sport, and an incredible ability to ignore the evidence of your own eyes. If anything is an insult to boxing, that is.

Calzaghe is a greeat fighter - and a first ballot Hall of Famer IMO.

But is he an all-time great? I don't think so. He certainly isn't greater all-time than Hopkins or Jones. And if you think you can put a big "WHO" next to the names those two guys fought, what do you do for Calzaghe? Heck, Jones' 4th or 5th best win is greater than 99% of Calzaghe's victories.

Calzaghe deserves far more credit than he's given on these boards. At the same time, I see a lot of Johnny Come Lately's on here trying to rewrite history. He's not greater than Jones nor Hopkins. As it stands however, he is one of the three best fighters in the world today.

[WHB3]

Roy Jones Jr. shouldn't price himself out of the fight? Are we talking about the same RJJ that just did 500K on PPV? That RJJ?

If anything, Roy should be the one getting the larger share since this fight is going to wind up in the States.

[TonyJ]

Joe C. is certainly NOT the draw but Roy is willing to take the short end of the stick (financially) anyway. So it doesn't matter.

Bottom line, there's no reason this fight shouldn't be made. They are just negotiating right now. Unless you believe Hopkins who swears Calzaghe will never fight Jones.

Jeah over 50,000 ppl and he is not the draw? Calzaghe-Manfredo had more ppl in live-audience than Jones-Prince had at PPV. How can you say that Calzaghe is not the draw. Hell even if they fight in Las Vegas, Joe would bring more ppl.

@WHB3
JEah, Tito did over 500k against Winky. So WInky is the draw? Nice try.

[THE REED]

Jeah over 50,000 ppl and he is not the draw? Calzaghe-Manfredo had more ppl in live-audience than Jones-Prince had at PPV. How can you say that Calzaghe is not the draw. Hell even if they fight in Las Vegas, Joe would bring more ppl.

@WHB3
JEah, Tito did over 500k against Winky. So WInky is the draw? Nice try.

If joe was such a HUGE draw... joe and bernard would NOT have been on free hbo

[IMDAZED]

Jeah over 50,000 ppl and he is not the draw? Calzaghe-Manfredo had more ppl in live-audience than Jones-Prince had at PPV. How can you say that Calzaghe is not the draw. Hell even if they fight in Las Vegas, Joe would bring more ppl.

@WHB3
JEah, Tito did over 500k against Winky. So WInky is the draw? Nice try.

With all due respect, we're talking Finance here, not who's buying the $25 seats in the bleachers. Sure Calzaghe can pull 35k for Manfredo but he'd still get paid more to fight Jones in front of 12k in Vegas. Get my drift?

And how many HBO PPV's has Calzaghe done? Or here's a better question - what's his career high payday?

How about this one - why wasn't Hopkins-Calzaghe on PPV? What if it was Hopkins-Jones? Or Hopkins-Calzaghe?

Exactly.

[abadger]

Calzaghe is a greeat fighter - and a first ballot Hall of Famer IMO.

But is he an all-time great? I don't think so. He certainly isn't greater all-time than Hopkins or Jones. And if you think you can put a big "WHO" next to the names those two guys fought, what do you do for Calzaghe? Heck, Jones' 4th or 5th best win is greater than 99% of Calzaghe's victories.

Calzaghe deserves far more credit than he's given on these boards. At the same time, I see a lot of Johnny Come Lately's on here trying to rewrite history. He's not greater than Jones nor Hopkins. As it stands however, he is one of the three best fighters in the world today.

Agree with most of what you say. My point about the "WHO?" was exactly as you say, you can do the same to any fighter. I've posted on this subject many times and sometimes can't be bothered to repeat myself, but basically my view is that the standard of opposition Joe, Hopkins and Jones faced throughout their careers is broadly similar, with Jones and Hopkins having a few bigger names than Calzaghe has to give those lists a lift. I also do not like disparaging fighters as bums, and in general believe that the lower class fighters on the resumes of all three are generally better than they are credited with being. They all have a few cans, sure, but lots of contenders and champs with good reputations too.

I rate Calzaghe as p4p top 3 in the world and I think his ATG status is up in the air, depending on what else he can do, but I think his unbeaten record and long reign as champ make him a credible contender. I believe Jones is the "greatest" of the trio, as well as the most obviously talented and most obviously flawed. In terms of legacy I don't see much to separate Hopkins and Calzaghe TBH, their careers are remarkably similar. IMO both derive most of their status from their long reigns, and I think Joe's win over Kessler is better than Hopkins's over Winky, De La Hoya or Tarver, although we'll have to wait and see what Kessler can do in future to see if I'm right. If anything I'd say that Calzaghe has the better legacy of the two, but I am British and a Calzaghe fan so this is certainly affecting my thinking. Hopefully you can agree that there is not all that much separating Hopkins and Calzaghe in the all time stakes?
________
ASIAN AMERICAN