Calzaghe Blasts Hopkins, Eyes Kelly Pavlik

[Carlisle]

Boxing 101 for Joe his Dad and their fans.

When you throw your jab (for orthodox fighters)
Bring it straight back to your chin otherwise prepare to get hit with an overhand right.

When you move away
Don't move straight back move to the side or prepare to get hit hard.

Obviously Enzo Calzaghe didnt learn this in the boxing books he has read. In the Hayes vs. Maccarinelli fight.. Maccarinelli (trained by Enzo Calzaghe) first got hurt after dropping his hand after throwing a jab.. Boom! Hayes overhand right.

Finally Hayes finished him when he moved straight back (like an amateur) into a corner at that and guess what? Boom! Hayes overhand right.. Fight over.

These are the same mistakes that Enzo Calzaghe has taught his son Joe. Which is why Kessler a decent Class A fighter was able to connect with counter uppercuts each time Calzaghe squared up and dropped his head after throwing combos (like an amateur). Because he lacks pedigree training (gym talk for us boxers). He's a good athlete who's made a career fighting Class B fighters.

Both Maccarinelli and Calzaghe look good against Class B fighters but mistakes become more obvious and fighters who look good now but make a lot of mistakes are eventually both exposed and ruined when then fight a Class A fighter.

Calzaghe makes too many mistakes to beat Hopkins.

The reason why Mayweather is so good is guess why? Because he doesn't make a lot of mistakes and capitalizes on all his opponents mistakes. Its why he exposed Hatton.. another Class B fighter from the UK.

There is a reason why undefeated Class B UK fighters (Hatton, Maccarinelli) who fight good fighters from overseas get ruined and this time will be no different... another undefeated UK fighter comes to state to get beat down.

Hayes even got beat down by a Class A Cuban fighter before he turned pro. Same thing will happen to him if he comes to the states.

History shows that it does matter where you are from. Heard of Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman and Joe Frazier? Guess what? They were all from the US. What a coincidence.

Pffff. Why do I even bother...

If you look into his resume and consider the fighters on that list at the time, you'll see it's nowhere near being filled with "bums". The fact that he's so many levels higher than pretty much anyone he fought doesn't mean they were all bums. They were fighting Joe for a reason.

OK, so there are not too many famous Americans on that list. Honestly, who gives a ****? Is boxing really all about famous name recognition? There is a whole world outside of America. Besides, who's fault is it anyway? Hopkins ducked out of the fight they'd arranged 6 years ago. Joe has been asking for the Hopkins fight for longer than I can even remember. As for the American fighters who've been put in front of him so far, he beat them all convincingly. Or should he be beating up welterweights and light middles, just because they have a famous name?

Trinidad... Pffff. Welterweight.
De La Hoya... Welterwight.
Tarver... super-deflated.
Winky... Bloated light middleweight.
Mercado... Oh, yeah, he got decked like a spaz *twice* during that one and came away with a draw. Got knocked through the damn ropes, for crying out loud.
Jones... Bernard lost that one.
Taylor.... Lost twice! No cigar, chief.

Is this really so much more impressive than Calzaghe's list just because you recognise those names? Joe would have smacked the **** out them too, and probably more convincingly than Bernard did himself. At least Joe's been fighting people his own size. Legit, belt-holding challengers. Holders of multiple belts. Champions and former world champions. Sure, there are a couple of nobodies on that list, but tell me one fighter who hasn't fought a few? Only difference is people from America don't know **** about the fighters on Joe's resume because they refuse to take their blinkers off and realize there's more, much more, to the boxing world than the USA.

As I said, i don't know why i even bother arguing this ****. You are so convinced of your beliefs already, so I'm basically just wasting my time.

[ml2niceguy]

calzaghe's gonna get beat

[comanick]

Remind me how many uppercuts Kessler landed.

As for "Uppercut, Right Hand Lead. Right Hand Lead, Uppercut. Tie him up.. Beat him up", come on man, let's be realistic here. It'll be more like "Right hand, grab, get on your bike, right hand, grab, back-peddle, dodge, lead with the head, headbutt because there's no other way of winning this ****ing fight..."

And so on.

That's the bottom line.

PS: Mercado dropped Hopkins twice. Taylor staggered him.

Calzaghe hasn't lost since 1990. It was in the amateurs, Prague, and the decision was extremely controversial. If Hopkins somehow, as if by magic, manages to drop Calzaghe, he'd better be prepared to be taken out, Mitchell style.

U wish taylor staggered him. I remember him bein pushed off balance in the 2nd when taylor came jumpin in like an amateur. U do realize the mercado fight was 13years ago right.

[Clegg]

I decided to respond to your post because you're new, and so unlike some of the other posters who I know just post anti-Calzaghe stuff and then don't back it up when you call them on it, you might want to debate it.

No defense and he only throws looping overhand rights.

You still believe this now or...? I wasn't sure from your post.

2.He then beat kessler which again was decent but not great. Did anyone notice that Joe was a so called champion before either lacy or kessler even turned pro. Truth is he should of won. There really shouldnt been any doubt in it considering he was this long reigning champion but there was.

So you're saying that a long reigning champion in his mid-thirties should always beat a younger fighter? I've got dozens of examples of the exact opposite happening if you think so.

Thats wear the problem lies. It took joe over 10 years to fight anyone of worth and even then they werent that worthy. Thats says something even if his fans wont admit it.

Suggest an alternative. He beat everyone in the division, and you're saying that the Americans in other divisions were right not to fight him, so what exactly is your point?

A lot of Calzaghe's critics seem to have these flaws in their logic.

1. They say "He should've fought BH sooner"
2. Someone else says "He tried, Hopkins wouldn't take the fight"
3. They say "You can't blame him, Calzaghe wasn't famous enough"

Point 3 of course doesn't back up point 1, it deflects attention elsewhere. But then they quickly run off to another thread and repeat point 1 endlessly until someone comes along with point 2.

In the UK we call that pantomime. On this website it passes for intelligent discussion.

3. People like to say hop ducked him years ago but truth is 7 years ago joe was a nobody and he was already holdin a belt for 4 years. Tell me why anyone (roy,hop.or toney) would go over there to fight him.

See, this is what I'm talking about above. Criticising Calzaghe for not having fought big name Americans, and praising big name Americans for having not fought Joe. In the same post!

By the way, Toney? When was this fight ever possible? By the time Calzaghe won the SMW title, Toney was a Cruiserweight with 4 defeats on his record, and he didn't have a meaningful victory for several years. Had Calzaghe beat him people like you would've called it meaningless.

It made no sense ,no reward. Win and its so what whos he , lose and then what, and thats probably what hop realized when he backed out.

There are a few reasons, actually

1. Going up against Calzaghe would've been more meaningful than some of BH's defences. Fighting Robert Allen for the third time? Come on...

2. Considering what he achieved, Hopkins wasn't getting paid that much in many of his fights. He got a lot for Trinidad and de la Hoya, but if that had more to do with them than him. De la Hoya vs a random guy off the street would get more attention than the some of BH's fights. He would've got more money fighting JC than for most of his defences.

3. It's a new challenge. Stepping up a division to fight the man recognised as the best in that division is the sort of challenge that a great fighter should aim for. Calzaghe is criticised for not stepping up to LHW to fight RJJ, even though RJJ didn't want to fight him, but you praise Hopkins for not stepping up to SMW to fight Calzaghe, even though Calzaghe did want to fight him.

4.What happened to glen johnso3n. Didnt he back out of 3 fights with him .

In my opinion, Calzaghe suffered a legitimate injury. The same thing happened before the Lacy fight, and Calzaghe obviously wasn't scared there. It's a shame that Calzaghe has had so many hand problems, but I don't believe that he's faking it.

Woods beat Johnson. Tarver beat Johnson. Dawson will probably beat Johnson. Hopkins beat Johnson. Hopkins is the top challenge at 175. Dawson is probably 2nd.

What happened to clinton woods. no he want no part of them.

If he had fought Clinton Woods before Woods had won a title, you'd be claiming that it was a meaningless fight and another example of Calzaghe fighting in the UK against European opposition.

Since Woods has won the title, Calzaghe has had bigger targets in mind. Even if Calzaghe beat him now, you and many others would say that Woods is just another European and that the win is worthless.

But Calzaghe doesn't fight him and you imply that it's because he's scared? You can't have it both ways.

Truth is the fact that a 43 years man is the best fighter he ever fought

In p4p lists, Hopkins is the highest ranked guy above welterweight. There is NO ONE you can claim as a better opponent right now. Or should he drop down to welterweight and fight Mayweather? You keep criticising JC without suggesting an alternative. Please, show me who this mythical warrior is that Joe is ducking? Hopkins is the best possible opponent. Accept it.

[Clegg]

Go to utube.com and pull up the Kessler vs. Calzaghe fight. Notice how after Calzaghe throws combinations he squares up to his opponent and puts his head down? UPPERCUT!! Kessler was hitting him with that all night. Calzaghe never even adjusted.

Maybe I missed something on my TV that you picked up on a pixellated little youtube screen, but that isn't what happened. Kessler landed a couple in decent uppercuts early on, but I can't remember him doing so in the second half of the fight. Name a round when Kessler was hitting Calzaghe with several uppercuts?

Everybody thought Hatton would beat Mayweather

Your grasp of reality is quite worrying.

and Maccrenelli (another Enzo trained fighter) would win.

Actually Haye was a slight favourite.

Go to utube and pull up Calzaghe vs. Byron Mitchell... BYRON MITCHELL of all people was the 1st person to drop Calzaghe..

Of all people? The guy was probably the second best in the division at that point, having just been robbed against Ottke. Calzaghe lunged in off balance and was down for about 2 seconds before winning by KO 60 seconds later.

Did Hopkins come back just as impressively after being knocked down by Mercado? No, he didn't even win the fight, let alone win by KO in the same round.

Mercado finished his career with 11 KOs from 31 fights. Byron Mitchell finished his with 18 KOs from 30 fights. Mercado ended up with 10 losses, Mitchell with 4. Oh, and 9 of Mercado's defeats were by KO.

Hopkins has fought 6 fighters who have been TOP 10 on the Pound for Pound list. SIX!

1. Roy Jones
2. Oscar Delahoya
3. Tito Trinidad
4. Jermain Taylor
5. Antonio Tarver
6. Winky Wright

Listen, I agree that Hopkins has fought better fighters, but he's also lost to two of the names on that list. Coming up short against top fighters may give you experience, but it's not something to boast about.

Most people admit that Trinidad and de la Hoya weren't as good at MW. Even if you disagree, the fact is that they made their reputations elsewhere before stepping up above their natural weight(ditto for Winky). Calzaghe on the other hand never had a great middleweight step up to his division.

As soon as a fighter began to be considered in the top 10 p4p list, Calzaghe beat them. They didn't have time to build a great reputation elsewhere like Tito and DLH.

Have a read back over past articles and you'll see that the guy who does the p4p list on this site had Kessler at number 3 this time last year. Lacy was in the top 10 of quite a few people prior to the Calzaghe fight.

[xfiles]

I decided to respond to your post because you're new, and so unlike some of the other posters who I know just post anti-Calzaghe stuff and then don't back it up when you call them on it, you might want to debate it.



You still believe this now or...? I wasn't sure from your post.



So you're saying that a long reigning champion in his mid-thirties should always beat a younger fighter? I've got dozens of examples of the exact opposite happening if you think so.



Suggest an alternative. He beat everyone in the division, and you're saying that the Americans in other divisions were right not to fight him, so what exactly is your point?

A lot of Calzaghe's critics seem to have these flaws in their logic.

1. They say "He should've fought BH sooner"
2. Someone else says "He tried, Hopkins wouldn't take the fight"
3. They say "You can't blame him, Calzaghe wasn't famous enough"

Point 3 of course doesn't back up point 1, it deflects attention elsewhere. But then they quickly run off to another thread and repeat point 1 endlessly until someone comes along with point 2.

In the UK we call that pantomime. On this website it passes for intelligent discussion.



See, this is what I'm talking about above. Criticising Calzaghe for not having fought big name Americans, and praising big name Americans for having not fought Joe. In the same post!

By the way, Toney? When was this fight ever possible? By the time Calzaghe won the SMW title, Toney was a Cruiserweight with 4 defeats on his record, and he didn't have a meaningful victory for several years. Had Calzaghe beat him people like you would've called it meaningless.



There are a few reasons, actually

1. Going up against Calzaghe would've been more meaningful than some of BH's defences. Fighting Robert Allen for the third time? Come on...

2. Considering what he achieved, Hopkins wasn't getting paid that much in many of his fights. He got a lot for Trinidad and de la Hoya, but if that had more to do with them than him. De la Hoya vs a random guy off the street would get more attention than the some of BH's fights. He would've got more money fighting JC than for most of his defences.

3. It's a new challenge. Stepping up a division to fight the man recognised as the best in that division is the sort of challenge that a great fighter should aim for. Calzaghe is criticised for not stepping up to LHW to fight RJJ, even though RJJ didn't want to fight him, but you praise Hopkins for not stepping up to SMW to fight Calzaghe, even though Calzaghe did want to fight him.



In my opinion, Calzaghe suffered a legitimate injury. The same thing happened before the Lacy fight, and Calzaghe obviously wasn't scared there. It's a shame that Calzaghe has had so many hand problems, but I don't believe that he's faking it.

Woods beat Johnson. Tarver beat Johnson. Dawson will probably beat Johnson. Hopkins beat Johnson. Hopkins is the top challenge at 175. Dawson is probably 2nd.



If he had fought Clinton Woods before Woods had won a title, you'd be claiming that it was a meaningless fight and another example of Calzaghe fighting in the UK against European opposition.

Since Woods has won the title, Calzaghe has had bigger targets in mind. Even if Calzaghe beat him now, you and many others would say that Woods is just another European and that the win is worthless.

But Calzaghe doesn't fight him and you imply that it's because he's scared? You can't have it both ways.



In p4p lists, Hopkins is the highest ranked guy above welterweight. There is NO ONE you can claim as a better opponent right now. Or should he drop down to welterweight and fight Mayweather? You keep criticising JC without suggesting an alternative. Please, show me who this mythical warrior is that Joe is ducking? Hopkins is the best possible opponent. Accept it.

Get a ****ing life buddy.....

[warp1432]

Maybe I missed something on my TV that you picked up on a pixellated little youtube screen, but that isn't what happened. Kessler landed a couple in decent uppercuts early on, but I can't remember him doing so in the second half of the fight. Name a round when Kessler was hitting Calzaghe with several uppercuts?

Round 4...

Of all people? The guy was probably the second best in the division at that point, having just been robbed against Ottke. Calzaghe lunged in off balance and was down for about 2 seconds before winning by KO 60 seconds later.

Did Hopkins come back just as impressively after being knocked down by Mercado? No, he didn't even win the fight, let alone win by KO in the same round.

.

He almost pulled it on the 12th where he beat the **** out of him. Not to mention in the reamtch he DEMOSLISHED him.

Listen, I agree that Hopkins has fought better fighters, but he's also lost to two of the names on that list. Coming up short against top fighters may give you experience, but it's not something to boast about.

Calzaghe on the other hand never had a great middleweight step up to his division.

Glen Johnson, Antwon Echols, and Keith Holmes all were good middleweights that stepped up. Before Calzaghe beat Brewer, Echols stopped Brewer in 3 (I've read that it was a bull**** stoppage...still why didn't he ever fight Echols)?

Reason why no great Middleweights stepped up because they never had a chance to prove themselves because they were all getting battered by Hopkins. Hopkins and Calzaghe both have the unforunate thing where they make their oppnenots look average and not all that great when he fact they were good fighters in their division.

Have a read back over past articles and you'll see that the guy who does the p4p list on this site had Kessler at number 3 this time last year. Lacy was in the top 10 of quite a few people prior to the Calzaghe fight

I can't say for Lacy (but I doubt he was in the top 10), I know for a fact Kessler was never in the top 10.

[Clegg]

Round 4...

When I said early on, I did mean including round 4. I should been clearer, my bad.

He almost pulled it on the 12th where he beat the **** out of him. Not to mention in the reamtch he DEMOSLISHED him.

Kudos to Hopkins for that (and for going to Ecuador to fight, I wouldn't). I think Hopkins is a good fighter and deserves the credit that people give him for his career. But if someone is going to bring up the knockdown against Calzaghe as being shameful, then I think the knockdowns against Hopkins are worse. They were against lesser opposition (Mitchell is no ATG I know but still) and Calzaghe came back from his a lot better.

Glen Johnson, Antwon Echols, and Keith Holmes all were good middleweights that stepped up. Before Calzaghe beat Brewer, Echols stopped Brewer in 3 (I've read that it was a bull**** stoppage...still why didn't he ever fight Echols)?

I was watching boxing at the time but I didn't read the magazines or websites and am unsure if it was discussed of desired by either fighter. But Echols was better than a lot of JC's opposition, and Calzaghe should've tried for the fight. I'm sure Echols would've wanted it too.

I think it's easy to include Johnson's name in there with hindsight, but inbetween his loss to Hopkins at MW and his success at light-heavy he didn't look that good and had a losing run.

I didn't see much of Holmes, and I don't claim to be knowledgeable on him, but it seems like he only fought at 168 very briefly, and did so when past his best.

Reason why no great Middleweights stepped up because they never had a chance to prove themselves because they were all getting battered by Hopkins.

Ok, but Hopkins still had the advantage of having a couple of big-name, high-talent welters step up for massive fights. There were so many good fighters around that weight during that time that nobody was going to leave it to fight in a ****ty 168 division dominated by a couple of Europeans.

[FRKO]

U wish taylor staggered him. I remember him bein pushed off balance in the 2nd when taylor came jumpin in like an amateur. U do realize the mercado fight was 13years ago right.

Pushed off balance? Whatever it was, he looked like an ass that night. He tried to surprise Jermain and ended up looking silly cause Jermain beat him to the punch.

Yes, Mercado was 13 years ago, I realize this. I also realize Joe hasn't been beaten since 1990 when he was in the amateurs. Regardless, I can't imagine JC being knocked down twice in the same fight and almost ending up in the cheap seats like Hops against Mercado. Nor would he be made to look like an ass by Jermain taylor.

[xfiles]

Pushed off balance? Whatever it was, he looked like an ass that night. He tried to surprise Jermain and ended up looking silly cause Jermain beat him to the punch.

Yes, Mercado was 13 years ago, I realize this. I also realize Joe hasn't been beaten since 1990 when he was in the amateurs. Regardless, I can't imagine JC being knocked down twice in the same fight and almost ending up in the cheap seats like Hops against Mercado. Nor would he be made to look like an ass by Jermain taylor.

As long as you believe it. Hey, I guess you must have one hell of an imagination. If you can actually convince yourself to believe Calzaghe is a great fighter who hasn't spent his whole career fighting bums and tomato cans you can convince yourself of anything.:wank: