Who's Higher on Your P4P: Pacquiao or Calzaghe?

[Clegg]

Plain and basic common sense. Pacquiao is a proven commodity. We know what he can do. Everything written about Calzaghe is speculation because the man has been hiding in his backyard for a decade.

It's 2008, not 1908. Just because someone fights in a different country doesn't mean you don't get to see them.

Calzaghe has fought outside of his own country more times than RJJ, Floyd Mayweather, Oscar de la Hoya and Shane Mosley combined. Calzaghe has also fought in England against English fighters in front of an English crowd making anti-Welsh chants.

Buy a ****ing TV or learn how to download fights.

I consider Pacquiao to be overrated. He beat a past his best Barrera and deserves credit for that, but he lost to Morrales and then only beat him once he was a bit older and a bit more past it. He drew with Marquez and then got a decision that I don't believe he deserved.

If Pacquiao gave a big puncher the openings that he gave Marquez then he'd be KO'd. Calzaghe could give Pac a few lessons on how to throw a lot of punches without getting countered so much.

Some of the things Pacquiao gets credit for seem odd to be. Moving up in weight? Wow, he must be a great fighter if he can do that. Pac should fight in the division that suits his body. Super-featherweight has better fighters than lightweight, especially after Juan Diaz losing. Why doesn't Pac fight Valero or Guzman? Is it because they aren't in their mid-30s and haven't already lost several times? If Pac is moving up then it's because it suits him, not because there are massive fights or big challenges on the horizon at lightweight, or did he see something in David Diaz's poor performance on the undercard that everyone else missed? He'd earn more fighting Marquez again than he would fighting David Diaz, and have a harder challenge too.

Pac gets rated highly because he's exciting and popular. The same thing happened to Gatti even after he got beat numerous times by substandard fighters. How fun someone is to watch and how highly they should be rated are not the same thing.

I'm not saying that Pac is ****, I just think the way he gets talked about doesn't match the way he performs. I think he's exciting most of the time and would put him in the top #5, but after the fight at the weekend combined with previous defeats and draws I find it impossible to rate him at #2, regardless of where you place Calzaghe.

It's a fact that if you are a European fighter who dominates your division by beating all the other European fighters and winning every single belt, you will not get full recognition from Americans. If you are American who wins an alphabet belt all you need do is beat a few average American fighters and you will get recognition.

[KingTito]

pacquiao for me.. look at who they've fought

[beanstalk]

He drew with Marquez and then got a decision that I don't believe he deserved.

If Pacquiao gave a big puncher the openings that he gave Marquez then he'd be KO'd.

He didn't look dominant against JMM coz JMM is very good too, top opposition and a P4P fighter, probably top 5 p4p. The credit should be more on JMM being underrated and not Pac being overrated.

But on Calzaghe, I can see a good argument on him being placed at #2.

[lesterprettyboy]

Its been mentioned before that the only way to test and prove greatness is by fighting the great ones themselves.

Look at Pac

PAC vs Barrera = (Barrera was p4p# 3)
PAC vs Morales 2= (Morales was p4p#5)
PAC vs Marquez = (Marquez was p4p#3 or 4)

All of those fighters were better than PAC technically but he still found ways to win...Can we say the same about Joe? Who is the highest ranked fighter he has faced? See the point? Its quite easy to "dominate" your division if you only have tomato cans as competition.

[Clegg]

Its been mentioned before that the only way to test and prove greatness is by fighting the great ones themselves.

And yet so many people considered Tyson to be a great fighter prior to the Douglas fight, even though he'd mainly beaten crap fighters. His best two opponents were light-heavyweight Spinks and old man Larry Holmes, and even before he beat them there were claims to greatness.

All of those fighters were better than PAC technically but he still found ways to win

Apart from the first fight with Morrales. And the first fight with Marquez. And the second fight in some people's opinion. But yes, he did beat Morrales during the 4 fight losing streak at the end of his career. Maybe that's why Pac wants to fight Diaz, because his win over Morrales is all the proof needed that he's a living legend.

Can we say the same about Joe? Who is the highest ranked fighter he has faced?

He's mainly fought European fighters, who aren't going to get rated highly by US fans and US magazines.

Kessler>old Morrales in between his defeats to Raheem and Diaz.

Calzaghe has fought and beat everyone in his division, including two younger undefeated champions who were predicted to beat him. Pac has beaten(and lost to) old men, been KO'd by flyweights and has not yet faced either of the 2 unbeaten world champions in his weight class.

Like I said earlier, I rate Pac in the top 5, but the idea that Calzaghe is somehow miles behind him and has a far inferior record simply isn't true.