Was Miguel Angel Gonzalez an ELITE fighter?

[RodBarker]

When he fought KT his opponents had lost 87 fights out 228 .

To be an elite fighter you have to at least beat one , Gonazales was a top 5 fighter but not elite in my book , elite is special and it comes with who you beat , not numbers or trinkets but who you beat .

[Wiley Hyena]

When he fought KT his opponents had lost 87 fights out 228 .

To be an elite fighter you have to at least beat one , Gonazales was a top 5 fighter but not elite in my book , elite is special and it comes with who you beat , not numbers or trinkets but who you beat .

Gonzales Box Rec stats: 51-5. Check them out. He held the WBC LW belt for 5 years, if I correctly recall. So now, that is not good enough, because like Tszyu in your opinion, he never beat anybody. Don't you think that argument is getting a little old when you apply it to a champion of half a decade?

[Wiley Hyena]

It appears that more people agree with me on this one, so I'm feeling confident that my opinion is the correct one. The sad thing is that not many people will say Kostya wasn't great, but they just see that he never beat an elite fighter. Its not a knock on his career, but you just can't accept that you're wrong.

No. I just disagree because I followed his career. I'm not feverishly looking over stats in an effort to assess all the years past. Tszyu beat everyone that would take him on (Phillips aside). Floyd dodged him. Oscar let himself be stripped instead of fighting him. Mosely didn't want any piece of Tszyu. What else can you do? Just beat everybody else. It's clear in my mind.

[RodBarker]

Gonzales Box Rec stats: 51-5. Check them out. He held the WBC LW belt for 5 years, if I correctly recall. So now, that is not good enough, because like Tszyu in your opinion, he never beat anybody. Don't you think that argument is getting a little old when you apply it to a champion of half a decade?

You dont get it do you ,, it dont matter about trinkets it dont matter about numbers as to how good you are , paper tigers are built in boxing every day ,,,, WHO DID HE BEAT , not one elite fighter !

[ElGranLuchador]

gonzales is elite one of the bravest fighters ive seen

[Wiley Hyena]

You dont get it do you ,, it dont matter about trinkets it dont matter about numbers as to how good you are , paper tigers are built in boxing every day ,,,, WHO DID HE BEAT , not one elite fighter !

Check his record: Gonzales, Judah (when he was undefeated champ), Mitchell (when he was highly regarded), Chavez, Lopez, Pineda, etc.... He cleaned out his division, and the rest moved up rather than take him on. What else can a fighter do?

You just won't let this go. It's like a weed stuck up your arse. I won't re-argue points I've owned you with so many times. Learn to live with it.

[RodBarker]

Hey Wiley what do you make of a record that stands at 78 wins 58 KOs and 7 losses ?

[ThaHorseman]

Gonzales Box Rec stats: 51-5. Check them out. He held the WBC LW belt for 5 years, if I correctly recall. So now, that is not good enough, because like Tszyu in your opinion, he never beat anybody. Don't you think that argument is getting a little old when you apply it to a champion of half a decade?

It appears he held the belt for 3 years, not 5. And that belt was also at LW, which makes the Kostya win even less impressive. Again, I'm not saying he wasn't good, but elite is a bit of an overstatement.

You just can't seem to admit you're wrong. Kinda like how Kostya was still elite when he fought Hatton even at 36. Yet Pernell Whitaker was not the same fighter at 33 when DLH beat him. Also, you claim Hurtado was a great win for Kostya, yet Pernell beat him in the fight before DLH. If he was a great win for Kostya in '98, why wasn't he a great win for Pernell in '97? Jake Rodriguez was another win you cited as giving Kostya a win over an elite fighter. Pernell Whitaker beat him later that year (only a couple fights before the DLH fight). Why all the contradictions and hypocrisy?

[RodBarker]

Check his record: Gonzales, Judah (when he was undefeated champ), Mitchell (when he was highly regarded), Chavez, Lopez, Pineda, etc.... He cleaned out his division, and the rest moved up rather than take him on. What else can a fighter do?

You just won't let this go. It's like a weed stuck up your arse. I won't re-argue points I've owned you with so many times. Learn to live with it.

LOL they are not elite you dumb **** , and Chavez was shot after ODH blew him away ,,,,, you are all for titles out of weetie packets and over the hill names , you cant comprehend whats real , you are all about hype !

[Wiley Hyena]

It appears he held the belt for 3 years, not 5. And that belt was also at LW, which makes the Kostya win even less impressive. Again, I'm not saying he wasn't good, but elite is a bit of an overstatement.

You just can't seem to admit you're wrong. Kinda like how Kostya was still elite when he fought Hatton even at 36. Yet Pernell Whitaker was not the same fighter at 33 when DLH beat him. Also, you claim Hurtado was a great win for Kostya, yet Pernell beat him in the fight before DLH. If he was a great win for Kostya in '98, why wasn't he a great win for Pernell in '97? Jake Rodriguez was another win you cited as giving Kostya a win over an elite fighter. Pernell Whitaker beat him later that year (only a couple fights before the DLH fight). Why all the contradictions and hypocrisy?

Yawn....no contradictions here. Hurtado? Did I mention Hurtado? You just mentioned Hurtado. You just cannot get over the assertion that Oscar moved out of the division with Tszyu nipping at his heels for a number of years. Yes, Oscar let himself be stripped and Tszyu was awarded the belt. Yes, Oscar fought an older Pernell who in his prime would have beaten Oscar. It was a good showing by Oscar, but it was not his best challenge. Tszyu would have been his best challenge. He didn't take it.

I know Gonzales won the WBC belt in 92 and held it for a number of years and was fighting with that belt at stake in 1997 when he lost to Oscar. 92-97, is the reign, I believe. I know he didn't lose in that 5 year period, so you do the math.