Is the HW Division a Joke?

[StarshipTrooper]

Okay. I think we've established werewolf doesn't like blacks. Would he like his honorary white sheet and hood now?

Poet

[beez721]

Okay. I think we've established werewolf doesn't like blacks. Would he like his honorary white sheet and hood now?

Poet

sounds like you have the opposite problem of him

[StarshipTrooper]

Actually I couldn't care less what color a fighter is. It's immaterial. He's the one who keeps bringing race up.

Poet

[Stickman]

the hw division is decent right now but not great like in the old days. there are very few skilled fighters right now and no fighter even close to the level of tyson who was the baddest man on the planet.

even lewis was a better fighter than both the klitschkos. vitali fought the fight of his life against lewis who was totally out of shape. lewis was training to fight kurt johnson that little fat ass and didnt take him seriously. then they put vitali as the last minute replacement and lennox was out of shape. he still was doing enough to win the fight. these fighters today are decent but not that great.

Lewis was losing the fight, to that point. If not for the cut being ruled as caused by a punch (rightly so), he'd have lost a unanimous decision to Klitchko at the time of the stoppage. Not to mention the fact that Lewis had been rocked badly twice in a fight against an opponent that was supposed to be nothing more than a way to fill an empty slot in on the card. Lewis and Klitchko put on a great show that night, and I'm disappointed that the cut was bad enough to cause the stoppage. I don't know how it would've ended, but you sure as hell can't say that "Lewis was winning the fight", because at the time of the stoppage, he certainly was not. He'd been roughed up and outlanded by Klitchko like he'd never been before in his career.

[drvooh]

Okay. I think we've established werewolf doesn't like blacks. Would he like his honorary white sheet and hood now?

Poet

I've noticed a share who don't like whites in boxing either...hmmm

[StarshipTrooper]

I have issues with them too. The ethnicity of a fighter shouldn't be important.

Poet

[Stickman]

A lot of Lewis's fights were su****ious, and the Vitali fight was su****ious too. Vitali had never even been cut before - in the amateurs, in MMA fighting, in the pros - and then suddenly his face looks like chopped meat. Was there something funny with Lewis' gloves? Wlad spoke about this right after the fight.





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I've watched the fight many times (still have it on Tivo from it's live showing), and the cut was caused by a vicious right hand from Lewis that glanced off Klitchkos left brow, and then worsened by a couple of other rights. The damage to his lips and chin was mostly from Lewis' head. He wasn't intentionally billy-goating, but he wasn't going out of his way to keep from it, either, that's for sure. As for allegations of loaded gloves....it's virtually impossible in boxing today. They keep to close watch on that sort of thing. Not to say it is impossible, just the next best thing to it. Lewis won fairly, if in a very lucky way. And the way his glove raked across Klitchko's eyebrow and tore it open would've been impossible to plan deliberately. It was the wrist binding that caught the skin, more than anything else. Klitchko's head was at an odd angle to the blow, and it just turned out the worse for him because of it.

Incidentally, one of the most striking things I notice upon re-watching the fight over and over, is that when Lewis throws the same left-hook/overhand right combination that put so many of his other opponents on the canvas for a 10 count (Rahman, for example), it barely shook Klitchko. The guy's got a granite chin.

[StarshipTrooper]

Good points Stickman! While I don't think much of Wlad I DO hold Vitaly in high regard. If his comeback goes smoothly it will go a long way toward clearing the detritus from the division.

Poet

[Banderivets]

Who cares what the division is like?

The bottom line is that there is little American talent coming into the sport. Eventually the whole division will become Eastern European. It's an inevitable fact. An American might come a long, but thats it, singular. There are a ton of eastern euros lined up, plural. Anyway you try to swing it, the division will soon be majority Eastern Euro. There arent any American prospects coming. If there are, they are too young, and wont be here until a quarter past this decade.

Hence the division will loose the majority of American audience, whilst Klitschkos and co. will continue to sell out arenas in Germany, Russia and others once proper sports venues are built.

This is nothing about discrimination or racism. The fact is that, I dont give a **** about Major League Soccer, I love the sport, but I just cant stand watching MLS. So I can understand Americans loosing interest when there is no American representing the nation, to any sport, representation is a major factor and thats what gets people interested. Like my pinoy buddies who watch their country men fighting, but once someone else comes on they start talking about something else.

Hardcore boxing fans love the art of the sport, and dont care about all the other factors. But hardcore is 5% of the market. 95% of the money comes from the casual fan who likes drinking Budweiser infront of his oversized tely.

What am I leading to? THe fact that eventually americans will and are in the process of discrediting the current and future state of the division. Which is just a normal reaction.

Is the division a joke? As been said before, there have been times which you could say are on par, or even worse then what we have now. People just dont want to admit it, because its not Brooklyn and Detroit in the ring, its Kyiv and Abuja.

Saying that anyone from 60s and 70s would dominate the division is just silly. THe fighters are bigger, the fighters are stronger. They dont have the charisma or the character of the "Legends", they look more like soldiers and professionals who just come to work and win the fight.

Its like comparing formula 1. Everyone loved the glamour of the Fangio days, it was different, it was loose, not as organized and drivers smoked cigars whilst racing and never worked out a day in their life. Today it's a multi million dollar sports that runs more efficiently then a clinic, and the drivers have personal fitness trainers. But old timers still claim that the drivers of the old would rule today, for **** knows what reason....Maybe because their stories became legends over the years, and todays stories are nothing but news.



So ask yourself again. If its a joke, then this joke is here to stay for a long time. So you either live with it, or leave it alone, bitching wont bring Ali back, and it wont bring Big George back, or the small heavy in todays terms.

[Stickman]

You're right about that his prime weight was 209-215 lbs. Holmes was by no means a huge puncher but he was a good puncher like I said. He punched hard enough to get the respect of his opponents. No one would steam roll a prime Holmes. I highly doubt either Klits beat him but Lewis would have a decent chance to beat him. Holmes was very skilled & had a solid chin.

Holmes had a good chin and was very skilled, like you say. He's actually one of the few Icon heavyweights from days gone by that I'd pick to definitely go the distance with Wlad, and actually give him some serious trouble. I don't know that he'd win a decision, but it wouldn't surprise me if it would've happened. In fact, I'd pick Holmes to win against Wlad before I would Ali. Ali always seemed to have trouble with tall guys who had a good, strong jab and threw it often. Luckily for him, they were few and far between in his career.