Prime Langford vs. Prime Johnson

[travestyny]

There he goes with his same old recycled anonymous sources from a hundred years ago. It’s an exercise in futility. You might as well debate this topic with a mental patient at Bellevue, same difference.

Funny how you tried to debate me using the same sources. You just chose to make up your own instead Remember that?

You get real jealous when I prove my point. Let it go, GhostofForgery. The jig is up and you don't have the brains, the balls, or the facts to back up your claims.


By the way, I'm really enjoying Clay Moyle's book on Langford. Guess how many "anonymous sources" he has listed at the end of the book. That's right. Seems he compiled a lot of his information from newspapers around the time of the fights . Go figure


Unlike you, but like me, he actually gave the source for the newspapers. No forgeries like you, clown boy

[travestyny]

Speaking of admirable, I read that Johnson also patented an invention for some kind of new hammer, while still in prison. Damn dude.

Sounds like this fight was cursed. Like the more recent Khabid vs. Ferguson fight, which also fell through on 3 separate occasions. Now the champ is retired and Tony is past prime and shopworn, so the window of opportunity has pretty much passed on that one as well.

I saw something about that recently. But I read it was a wrench. Then turns out it was labeled a "monkey wrench." We know where that name came from.

But also read it wasn't his invention, so I'm not sure if that story is true or not.


Seems that these types of situations happen a lot. I thought May Pac would be the same way. Luckily it was finally made.

[travestyny]

You have made a strong argument that Johnson wasn't ducking Langford.

But you have unintentionally greatly discredited Langford's legacy. --- Does Sam get to have a voice in this?

The sources are Johnson and a disgruntled promoter who saw a big fight slip through his hands (because of Sam). --- As it reads now it doesn't look good for Langford, but we need to reserve some judgment until we can hear (if ever) his side of the story.

E.g. Maybe the money split wasn't right.

Also what is with the 'short fight' requirement? Was Johnson putting his title on the line for a six round fight?

By the way, check out all of these "recycled anonymous sources from a hundred years ago" used by Clay Moyle in his book on Sam Langford.

Clay Moyle should never dare to write a book again if that's the best he can do.

[travestyny]

You have made a strong argument that Johnson wasn't ducking Langford.

But you have unintentionally greatly discredited Langford's legacy. --- Does Sam get to have a voice in this?

The sources are Johnson and a disgruntled promoter who saw a big fight slip through his hands (because of Sam). --- As it reads now it doesn't look good for Langford, but we need to reserve some judgment until we can hear (if ever) his side of the story.

E.g. Maybe the money split wasn't right.

Also what is with the 'short fight' requirement? Was Johnson putting his title on the line for a six round fight?

Ok. Finally got to this in Clay Moyle's book. And it was pretty much as I expected.

Langford and Woodman (his manager) had agreed to fight Bill lang in England. When Johnson made this offer, they agreed to take it. So Woodman contacted McIntosh (the promoter for the Lang bout) and asked to get it postponed, but he said it was too late because all of the arrangements had been made. Not a duck by Langford, and certainly not a duck by Johnson.

But look at this moron declaring it a duck by Johnson. I wonder if he thinks his shlt for brains are still superior to my "anonymous recycled sources from 100 years ago" that proved it wasn't Johnson's doing.

GhostofForgery getting caught out there in bullshlt yet again




Moyle also talks about an instance of this fight being attempted before this. Both Johnson and Langford were at a fight (I forget where...I think Boston) and both got into the ring to speak.

"Johnson claimed that he attempted to post money for a fight in New York, but Sam and his manager failed to post their money." Langford claimed that Woodman posted the money 3 hours after Johnson had left New York. Then Johnson pulled out some money and said, "I'll bet a thousand dollars that Mr. Langford's manager did not post one cent," which angered Langford, and Langford stated, "Gentlemen, I am ready to post $20,000 within three days, or tomorrow morning, and I'll fight Johnson before any club, or I'll go down into a cellar with him and have it out."

They agreed to meet the next day to iron out details. Johnson offered $1000 to a stake holder and said that as challenger, Langford should post his $20,000 first, and then he would post the other $19,000. Of course if he didn't post it, Langford gets the $1000. Johnson said he would stay in the city for some time until Langford posts the money.

Clay ends it by saying this: "Ultimately Sam and Joe were either unwilling or unable to post the $20,000 demanded by Johnson. As a result they missed out on what later proved to be the last real opportunity to get the champion back into the ring."

[Willie Pep 229]

Ok. Finally got to this in Clay Moyle's book. And it was pretty much as I expected.

Langford and Woodman (his manager) had agreed to fight Bill lang in England. When Johnson made this offer, they agreed to take it. So Woodman contacted McIntosh (the promoter for the Lang bout) and asked to get it postponed, but he said it was too late because all of the arrangements had been made. Not a duck by Langford, and certainly not a duck by Johnson.

But look at this moron declaring it a duck by Johnson. I wonder if he thinks his shlt for brains are still superior to my "anonymous recycled sources from 100 years ago" that proved it wasn't Johnson's doing.

GhostofForgery getting caught out there in bullshlt yet again




Moyle also talks about an instance of this fight being attempted before this. Both Johnson and Langford were at a fight (I forget where...I think Boston) and both got into the ring to speak.

"Johnson claimed that he attempted to post money for a fight in New York, but Sam and his manager failed to post their money." Langford claimed that Woodman posted the money 3 hours after Johnson had left New York. Then Johnson pulled out some money and said, "I'll bet a thousand dollars that Mr. Langford's manager did not post one cent," which angered Langford, and Langford stated, "Gentlemen, I am ready to post $20,000 within three days, or tomorrow morning, and I'll fight Johnson before any club, or I'll go down into a cellar with him and have it out."

They agreed to meet the next day to iron out details. Johnson offered $1000 to a stake holder and said that as challenger, Langford should post his $20,000 first, and then he would post the other $19,000. Of course if he didn't post it, Langford gets the $1000. Johnson said he would stay in the city for some time until Langford posts the money.

Clay ends it by saying this: "Ultimately Sam and Joe were either unwilling or unable to post the $20,000 demanded by Johnson. As a result they missed out on what later proved to be the last real opportunity to get the champion back into the ring."

Ok thank you the post- education

[Dr. Z]

Ok. Finally got to this in Clay Moyle's book. And it was pretty much as I expected.

Langford and Woodman (his manager) had agreed to fight Bill lang in England. When Johnson made this offer, they agreed to take it. So Woodman contacted McIntosh (the promoter for the Lang bout) and asked to get it postponed, but he said it was too late because all of the arrangements had been made. Not a duck by Langford, and certainly not a duck by Johnson.

But look at this moron declaring it a duck by Johnson. I wonder if he thinks his shlt for brains are still superior to my "anonymous recycled sources from 100 years ago" that proved it wasn't Johnson's doing.

GhostofForgery getting caught out there in bullshlt yet again




Moyle also talks about an instance of this fight being attempted before this. Both Johnson and Langford were at a fight (I forget where...I think Boston) and both got into the ring to speak.

"Johnson claimed that he attempted to post money for a fight in New York, but Sam and his manager failed to post their money." Langford claimed that Woodman posted the money 3 hours after Johnson had left New York. Then Johnson pulled out some money and said, "I'll bet a thousand dollars that Mr. Langford's manager did not post one cent," which angered Langford, and Langford stated, "Gentlemen, I am ready to post $20,000 within three days, or tomorrow morning, and I'll fight Johnson before any club, or I'll go down into a cellar with him and have it out."

They agreed to meet the next day to iron out details. Johnson offered $1000 to a stake holder and said that as challenger, Langford should post his $20,000 first, and then he would post the other $19,000. Of course if he didn't post it, Langford gets the $1000. Johnson said he would stay in the city for some time until Langford posts the money.

Clay ends it by saying this: "Ultimately Sam and Joe were either unwilling or unable to post the $20,000 demanded by Johnson. As a result they missed out on what later proved to be the last real opportunity to get the champion back into the ring."

Back from a busy two weeks. Oh I thought you said you read the book before when you said the contact part in not in the book? Guess not.

Numerous offers were made to Johnson who if anything loved spending money. We never saw the fight from 1909-1915.

Hmmmm....


Tell you what, I know who Mr. Moyle is his and have his email address. I can invite him to sort out this cut and past. What he says goes, unless you wrote a book on Langford, I'll take his word over yours. No offense. Since Clay has a mobile lifestyle, let's give him until early March to post, if he chooses so.

Fair enough?

[travestyny]

Back from a busy two weeks. Oh I thought you said you read the book before when you said the contact part in not in the book? Guess not.

No, I said I reviewed the part you were talking about. And it was not there. I didn't say I read the entire book. That shouldn't have been difficult to understand.

Numerous offers were made to Johnson who if anything loved spending money. We never saw the fight from 1909-1915.

Hmmmm....

Yet you failed to post them. When you tried, you found out that the promoter pulled the fight. And another time when you quoted another instance that was mentioned, it was Langford that backed out of the agreement. Hmmmmm

Tell you what, I know who Mr. Moyle is his and have his email address. I can invite him to sort out this cut and past. What he says goes, unless you wrote a book on Langford, I'll take his word over yours. No offense. Since Clay has a mobile lifestyle, let's give him until early March to post, if he chooses so.

Fair enough?

Sure. You can contact anyone you'd like. I hope he does a better job than you have

Maybe he can tell us more about a third incident when Johnson was in negotiation with Langford but Langford and his manager failed to post the $20,000 after stating that they would and thus the fight didn't come off. I guess you missed that part in his book, hmmm?

That makes what? Three instances of Johnson trying to make this fight? Right???


I'd much rather talk to Clay anyway, since you are too scared to answer any questions

[Dr. Z]

No, I said I reviewed the part you were talking about. And it was not there. I didn't say I read the entire book. That shouldn't have been difficult to understand.


Yet you failed to post them. When you tried, you found out that the promoter pulled the fight. And another time when you quoted another instance that was mentioned, it was Langford that backed out of the agreement. Hmmmmm

Sure. You can contact anyone you'd like. I hope he does a better job than you have

Maybe he can tell us more about a third incident when Johnson was in negotiation with Langford but Langford and his manager failed to post the $20,000 after stating that they would and thus the fight didn't come off. I guess you missed that part in his book, hmmm?

That makes what? Three instances of Johnson trying to make this fight? Right???


I'd much rather talk to Clay anyway, since you are too scared to answer any questions

How many offers are out there for Johnson to fight either Langford, McVey or Jeannette as Champion? 10, 15, 20? Hmmm, I wonder why the fights never happened?

You don't use reason, and copy and paste away at new headlines of your liking that conducive to suit your agenda.

Did you read the book or not? Your giving mixed message now. Yes or no? We can see your out coming from a mile away...

Yes-- Let the author if he chooses to speak on this topic. You'll be out of business if he chooses to reply.

[travestyny]

How many offers are out there for Johnson to fight either Langford, McVey or Jeannette as Champion? 10, 15, 20? Hmmm, I wonder why the fights never happened.

I wonder why the times you tried to post them you failed

You don't use reason, and copy and paste away at new headlines of your liking that conducive to suit with your agenda.

Did you read the book or not? Your giving mixed message now. Yes or no?

I've stated here numerous times that I'm in the process of reading it, which is why I know he mentioned the instance of Sam stating he would post the $20,000 for the fight, and failing to post it. You conveniently didn't tell us about that, did you?

Yes-- Let the author if he chooses to speak on this topic. You'll be out of business if he chooses to reply.

I have a right to speak on it as much as anyone else. Don't get mad at me because I'm capable of and willing to do independent research. It's not about the word of an expert. It's about the proof. What we do know is that you've failed.


Did he attempt to fight Langford THREE times? You feeling up to answering questions today, or still ducking to search for your balls?

[travestyny]

Dr. Z Can you confirm that this is in Clay Moyle's book, since you seem to keep insinuating that I've never read any part of it? Jack Johnson and Sam Langford agreeing to a fight. It ends by saying this:

"Ultimately Sam and Joe [Woodman] were either unwilling or unable to post the $20,000 demanded by Johnson. As a result they missed out on what later proved to be the last real opportunity to get the champion back into the ring."




Question: From the above, do you now agree that THREE TIMES Jack Johnson agreed to this fight, and THREE TIMES the fight didn't come off through NO FAULT OF HIS OWN.

Can you chime in on this and stop ducking questions?


BTW, I'm leaving those pages up only until the end of the day because I don't know how Clay would feel about me sharing his work here. So don't duck this forever.

--edit--
If you need to see the pages, let me know. Still waiting....