Ali vs Ezzard Charles

[Rusty Tromboni]

I agree but Ali's height, fast legs and good hand speed would force Charles to fight as the aggressor. I think Early on Charles slipperyness is gonna give him some opportunities, but as the fight wears on Ali won't have to work as hard as Charles and hell start landing. I don't see Charles pressuring Ali much, I just see him out boxing him early on and making him look ******. Then Ali basically abandons his pretty style and just starts trying to knock charles out.

If Charles managed to hold on to it till the final bell he would have to be in pristine condition. It's those late rounds light heavies always seem to lose it vs great heavies.

I agree.

Anyone with strong legs beats Charles. And even the Ali who beat Ziggy had the size to withstand Charles' onslaught, fearsome though it was.

[them_apples]

- -Charles at his best would be the best p4p fighter he ever fought.

If you look at his so called prime Ali, crimony, he struggled against Mildenberger enough to have Cosell choking on his toupee!

thats because Charles is p4p, one of the best to ever do it. His resume at light heavy is one of the best resumes in boxing, bar non. It should be in the top 3 to be honest.

[billeau2]

I think it would be a difficult fight for Ali

Ali doesnt have that big heavyweight punch that lets him crush light heavies. He's got the heavyweight chin and light heavyweight speed.

Charles is more skilled than Ali though, so it would be an annoying and ugly fight for Ali, he would have to impost his heavyweight standard on the smaller fighter - which he often didn't like doing.

Charles is not easy to hit, his chin is good for a light heavy. These are the guys Ali had the most trouble with.

Great points . Bad match up for ali.

[Rusty Tromboni]

thats because Charles is p4p, one of the best to ever do it. His resume at light heavy is one of the best resumes in boxing, bar non. It should be in the top 3 to be honest.

Yet, there are Light Heavyweights who were better than Charles... and Ali was styled more after them than after Charles. That should tell us something. Dundee saw Loughran, he saw Wolgast, he saw Pep, he probably saw Conn, and maybe even knew enough about Tunney and Leonard from second-hand sources. There's a reason he styled his fighters the way he did, and there's a reason the sport moved in the direction which his references had pioneered.

[them_apples]

Yet, there are Light Heavyweights who were better than Charles... and Ali was styled more after them than after Charles. That should tell us something. Dundee saw Loughran, he saw Wolgast, he saw Pep, he probably saw Conn, and maybe even knew enough about Tunney and Leonard from second-hand sources. There's a reason he styled his fighters the way he did, and there's a reason the sport moved in the direction which his references had pioneered.

I get it the light heavy division is stacked, but who would you rate better than Charles based on resume?

[billeau2]

Ali would have to depend on his physical gifts against Charles... We are talking, his speed and his reflexes.

I don't profess to know how charles would handle a fighter that depends on raw athletic ability... we could almost do a similar hypothetical with Roy Jones lol.

Im just looking and cannot find a fighter with those attributes we can compare, whom Charles fought.

I tend to favor skills over such ability. Especially when we have more rounds... where a great technical fighter can adjust.

We can certainly say it would be tough for Charles to counter Ali... But it would be very hard for Ali to come in and catch Charles clean.

I just do not like this match up for Ali at all... I can see Charles finding him enough for a clear decision, I cannot see Ali really hurting Charles.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I get it the light heavy division is stacked, but who would you rate better than Charles based on resume?

That's a great question! Never recall being confronted with that.

Greb, obviously - by quite a distance.

But among NATURAL Light Heavyweights, there's no dis*****g Loughran takes top slot.

After that I dunno how I would order them, but here's some names:

Rosenbloom, Walker, Gibbons, Tunney, Stribling, Delaney, Conn, Moore, Johnson.

Langford could be throw in there too if you make him an honorary Light Heavyweight.

McTigue, Levinsky, and Slattery can probably be thrown in there.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Ali would have to depend on his physical gifts against Charles... We are talking, his speed and his reflexes.

I don't profess to know how charles would handle a fighter that depends on raw athletic ability... we could almost do a similar hypothetical with Roy Jones lol.

Im just looking and cannot find a fighter with those attributes we can compare, whom Charles fought.

I tend to favor skills over such ability. Especially when we have more rounds... where a great technical fighter can adjust.

We can certainly say it would be tough for Charles to counter Ali... But it would be very hard for Ali to come in and catch Charles clean.

I just do not like this match up for Ali at all... I can see Charles finding him enough for a clear decision, I cannot see Ali really hurting Charles.

Maxim did just fine. Walcott did even better than that. Marciano ruined him.

Charles was a nightmare... if you planted yourself in front of him. Kimbo Slice types, like Black Murderers' Row suffered horribly. Ali fought nothing like that.

You can see the levels of Boxing unfold before your eyes:

Charles <<<< Johnson <<<<< Pastrano.


Boxing took a nosedive after WWII, guys who would have been unknown Pre-War, like Moore and Charles, benefited enormously from it. But when old school trainers, like Clancy, Dundee, D'Amato and eventually Arcel took hold, they resurrect the game.

[billeau2]

Maxim did just fine. Walcott did even better than that. Marciano ruined him.

Charles was a nightmare... if you planted yourself in front of him. Kimbo Slice types, like Black Murderers' Row suffered horribly. Ali fought nothing like that.

You can see the levels of Boxing unfold before your eyes:

Charles <<<< Johnson <<<<< Pastrano.


Boxing took a nosedive after WWII, guys who would have been unknown Pre-War, like Moore and Charles, benefited enormously from it. But when old school trainers, like Clancy, Dundee, D'Amato and eventually Arcel took hold, they resurrect the game.

Not fighters that depended on physical ability... Im talking about a fighter like Jones, Ali... Robinson to some... Do you know of such an opponent charles fought? I just do not. He might have...

Charles was a puncher who used deceptive footwork, timing... something that is in Mexican fighting style where punches are sometimes thrown at different speeds... he had lots of different ways... so to speak.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Not fighters that depended on physical ability... Im talking about a fighter like Jones, Ali... Robinson to some... Do you know of such an opponent charles fought? I just do not. He might have...

Maxim had great stamina, durability and a persistent jab.

Walcott's footwork influenced Ali's.

Marciano was great at slipping punches.

Do you see the connections?

Again, we're talking about a young Ali. A guy who struggled with Jones and needed smelling salts to survive Cooper, but it's clear that men smaller and less physically gifted than Ali held up well against Charles.

Charles was a puncher who used deceptive footwork, timing... something that is in Mexican fighting style where punches are sometimes thrown at different speeds... he had lots of different ways... so to speak.

Mexican fighting styles!?!?!?!?


I would love to see a Mexican fighter who fought like Charles. Name just one.