Who would you say impacated boxing more Dempsey or Jack Johnson?

[Eff Pandas]

In their time? Dempsey by a mile.

In boxing history? Johnson by a mile.

[edgarg]

Very informative... Your analysis is backed up by many other contingencies. Among them, The very *******, socialist minded, working class hero of strevedores everywhere... Jack London, was a stone cold racist who hated Johnson and set the stage with his pronouncements about the "White Race" (and eventually bugged jeffries, by all accounts a decent sort, to come out of retirement) to give people motive to watch Jack fight: Which was to see him beat.

During that fight, I've read that Jim Corbett was at Jeffries'corner shouting out vile racial epithets all the time. You are correct about jack Jack London. I don't see why he took it on himself to be such a white "hero" He was a writer, and an adventurer who, in my opinion, was half- nuts. Strangely enough the reports say that John L. Sullivan, prematurely aged from dissipation and etc, was very laudatory towards Johnson, and praised his skills to the skies.

[QueensburyRules]

During that fight, I've read that Jim Corbett was at Jeffries'corner shouting out vile racial epithets all the time. You are correct about jack Jack London. I don't see why he took it on himself to be such a white "hero" He was a writer, and an adventurer who, in my opinion, was half- nuts. Strangely enough the reports say that John L. Sullivan, prematurely aged from dissipation and etc, was very laudatory towards Johnson, and praised his skills to the skies.

- -JL sent his prediction to the Times to be opened upon fight completion.

JL was correct and likely won a bonanza with his betting slip.

[edgarg]

It looks like he had two fights in France. I was not aware of the broken arm; interesting info.

I was referring to the Frank Moran fight in particular, that was the fight that took place after his Vaudeville act stunk out the place, because he wouldn't try. (I added and highlighted that part for T, not you.)

Re the broken arm, here is Boxrec's take on it:

One ringside report said that the spectators loudly protested that the men were not fighting and demanded their money back. Jack Johnson said he injured his left arm in the third round and could not use it, but ringsiders said he used his left often and likely fractured it when both fell to the mat in the tenth round. Post-fight examination revealed a slight fracture of the radial in his left arm.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Yes I read that report, but what I believe is a more definitive one, said that he had been involved in a street scuffle about a week before, where he fractured that bone, and during the fight spectators noticed that he stopped using than arm, fighting one-handed. He said that his arm was broken since the 3rd rd. Drs examining him after, more or less bore that out, that he fought with a fracture which the fight aggravated into a break, not of the arm but of that particular bone. The spectators rioted demanding their money back, and Johnson was lucky to get away undamaged. His opponent was "Battling" Jim Johnson, also from Galveston, not a very distinguished fighter, so it likely was a "put-up" job between them as the fight ended in a "draw". So for me that it was a REAL fight, is questionable.

Those were the days with very loose rules, almost no oversight except public opinion and the Police Gazette, and Black boxers, always far poorer than white, had to go to all sorts of schemes to "raise the wind". WW! changed things a lot bringing a more orderly way of doing things, more officialdom more rules, more means to penalise infractions.

Although the hatred of the the thwarted US Govt for Johnson did not diminish. They hounded him literally. Not a single US President would ever consider Pardoning him for the faked up, especially crafted crime for which he was chased, charged and sentenced.....Until Trump, who did so without hesitation.

[edgarg]

- -JL sent his prediction to the Times to be opened upon fight completion.

JL was correct and likely won a bonanza with his betting slip.

I assume you mean Sullivan, and not London. Thank you for that info I never knew anything about this, and I have read much about the period. If you men London, that's much more puzzling because the guy was practically frothing at the mouth.

[JAB5239]

During that fight, I've read that Jim Corbett was at Jeffries'corner shouting out vile racial epithets all the time. You are correct about jack Jack London. I don't see why he took it on himself to be such a white "hero" He was a writer, and an adventurer who, in my opinion, was half- nuts. Strangely enough the reports say that John L. Sullivan, prematurely aged from dissipation and etc, was very laudatory towards Johnson, and praised his skills to the skies.

I read an article a long time ago and cannot find it again. It talked about Sullivan's disdain for Johnson and how when they met they were in a room together and refused to talk to one another. This went on for awhile until they started laughing at the ridiculousness of it. When they came out, both were complimentary of one another and a new found respect was born between the two. I have no idea if this is true, but found it very interesting.

[Willie Pep 229]

Yes I read that report, but what I believe is a more definitive one, said that he had been involved in a street scuffle about a week before, where he fractured that bone, and during the fight spectators noticed that he stopped using than arm, fighting one-handed. He said that his arm was broken since the 3rd rd. Drs examining him after, more or less bore that out, that he fought with a fracture which the fight aggravated into a break, not of the arm but of that particular bone. The spectators rioted demanding their money back, and Johnson was lucky to get away undamaged. His opponent was "Battling" Jim Johnson, also from Galveston, not a very distinguished fighter, so it likely was a "put-up" job between them as the fight ended in a "draw". So for me that it was a REAL fight, is questionable.

Those were the days with very loose rules, almost no oversight except public opinion and the Police Gazette, and Black boxers, always far poorer than white, had to go to all sorts of schemes to "raise the wind". WW! changed things a lot bringing a more orderly way of doing things, more officialdom more rules, more means to penalise infractions.

Although the hatred of the the thwarted US Govt for Johnson did not diminish. They hounded him literally. Not a single US President would ever consider Pardoning him for the faked up, especially crafted crime for which he was chased, charged and sentenced.....Until Trump, who did so without hesitation.

No doubt the Mann Act charge was bogus but Jack Johnson was the financier of a top end whore house in Chicago, he was no innocent.

You believe Trump acted out of a sense of justice?

What do you think, Jack Johnson would think of Donald Trump if he were alive today?

My guess, Johnson would tell him to stick his pardon where the sun don't shine.

[edgarg]

No doubt the Mann Act charge was bogus but Jack Johnson was the financier of a top end whore house in Chicago, he was no innocent.

You believe Trump acted out of a sense of justice?

What do you think, Jack Johnson would think of Donald Trump if he were alive today?

My guess, Johnson would tell him to stick his pardon where the sun don't shine.

No he wasn't "the financier", he was a friend who loaned her money to set up in "business". Where did I ever say he was "an innocent". ??He was the product of his demeaning times. As for Johnson "sticking the pardon" etc.etc. why be vulgar, but from your comment, I can see that you are a BAD "guesser". The sort of guy who should never make bets based on his "guesses"..

I see no reason to bring the atmosphere of acrimony into our exchanges.

A question for you..... Why should I NOT believe that Trump acted from sense of Justice. He has a very strongly developed Sense Of Justice as his public acts, and personal under the table kindnesses have amply shown over the many past years. His late father was the same.

Why bring politics into it. It just implies that you have a very cynical outlook on life, as well as being one of those frantic Trumpophobe ********s. Me, I was born in Ireland and live in Canada. US Politics don't make me all heated up...no politics do. I've lived here for over 50 years and never once voted. I treat everyone fairly, speak only the truth, GREW UP LONG AGO...and contribute to as many charities as I want to.

Incidentally, off the subject, one of those charities sent me their list, and lo and behold, Bob Arum was at the top, as the major contributor. I looked further into it and found that both he and his wife, have founded several major charities, a few are international, and they are the main contributors. This is what his wife spends her time with.

[billeau2]

During that fight, I've read that Jim Corbett was at Jeffries'corner shouting out vile racial epithets all the time. You are correct about jack Jack London. I don't see why he took it on himself to be such a white "hero" He was a writer, and an adventurer who, in my opinion, was half- nuts. Strangely enough the reports say that John L. Sullivan, prematurely aged from dissipation and etc, was very laudatory towards Johnson, and praised his skills to the skies.

LOL. I've never gotten London either... He actually committed suicide because he was ashamed of his working-class upbringing. He was a very Progressive guy, he wrote very sophisticated political commentary, and of course his books about animals... Yeah he had this real racial pride thing going on and was very hostile to Johnson.

Half nuts it's a very good description. I think Sullivan got wise simply through the process of age, dissolution be damned. That's a shame about Corbett.

[edgarg]

LOL. I've never gotten London either... He actually committed suicide because he was ashamed of his working-class upbringing. He was a very Progressive guy, he wrote very sophisticated political commentary, and of course his books about animals... Yeah he had this real racial pride thing going on and was very hostile to Johnson.

Half nuts it's a very good description. I think Sullivan got wise simply through the process of age, dissolution be damned. That's a shame about Corbett.

You know, I read some of London's books, and although well written they didn't touch me. Except for ONE. I've just looked up TWO complete lists of London's works and this story is not mentioned. A complete novel, it is in an early 1940s Science Fiction Pulp Magazine, and is called "The Star Rover":..It touched me very deeply and I re-read it about 4-5 times. It is vastly enhanced by the most wonderful illustrations of the very best of illustrators (in my opinion-some Science Fiction buffs say Laurence) Virgil Finlay, who used his own unique method of making illustrations.

His works are now sold in Folios and fetch a goodly price.

As for Corbett, some newspaper guy dubbed him" Gentleman Jim Corbett", and the Errol Flynn movie was entitled "Gentleman Jim".....believe me he was NO gentleman.

I made the same comment about Gentleman Jackson, who beat Daniel Mendoza, a much better boxer, in fact the father of the scientific style, but only 5'7" and 160 lbs. Anyway Jackson beat him only by grabbing him by his long hair, holding his head under his arm ("in chancery" was then the term) and clubbing him.

***reminds me of how Lennox Lewis would score KO's, like for instance against Michael Grant, by blatantly holding him behind the head and uppercutting him with his right. He did it ALL the time and the refs always went blind right then.***