Top ten fighters who most impacted boxing

[JAB5239]

So I was looking at a thread I made years ago about the top 10 fighters to have a social impact and it was pointed out that there were only heavyweights on the list. So I started thinking about it and doing a little research and found this article I found very interesting.... especially the inclusion of Chuck Wepner. But it actually gave a good explanation. Do you agree with this list, an or who would you put on yours and why?

https://syndication.bleacherreport.c...story.amp.html

[Marchegiano]

I think it's fair to say the HWs did carry boxing....I'm going to go a bit off subject and include non-fighters though


My ten:



1 James Figg - Kind of invented the industry. We focus a lot on Figg being a fighter, but, he's also a the first boxing trainer, first boxing manager, first venue owner in boxing, and first boxing promoter. So, like I said, he kind of invented the industry.

2 Jack Broughton - He's the guy who finished what Figg started. He didn't just write the rules, he looked back to the Greeks for answers and created things like boxing gloves so that he could spar nobility without hurting them and of course his famous pre-defined rules.

3 Daniel Mendoza - Defense in general. Mendoza brought the hit and don't be hit back style that most fighters employ today. Posture, positioning, footwork, counters, all the classic traits that make a great boxer Mendoza brought to he game. Also, he furthered James and Jack's industrial work by adding ticketing for events and promoting through the media to it. He was hated during his reign (for being ***ish) and revered during his retirement.

4 Tom Molyneaux - His rags to riches story inspired generations of fighters. Every black fighter half worth his salt would call themselves Molyneaux until men like Gans and Johnson would rise to prominence and take that honor.

5 Captain Barclay - Tom Cribb's trainer is the man responsible for dieting in boxing. Well, nutritional dieting rather than manly dieting in boxing. He had Cribb on salads, water, and juice. They were made fun of for having sworn off meat and alcohol but once Cribb fought people respected the edge a good diet gave him and mimicked it. I'm not sure, but, I think Tom Cribb is also one of the first vegans.

6 King George - we have belts instead of rings, trophies, medals, plaques, or any other form of a physical embodiment of an accolade because when Cribb beat Molyneaux King George had one belt made and given to Cribb and the British nobility had another created for Moly. The Cribb belt is the first championship belt in history.

7 William Fuller - Sparring was sort of like a test. You'd spar so that someone with no chance of beating you could test themselves against you. You'd spar rich folk who pay to take a beating as sort of a weird old timey novelty and you'd spar young hopefuls to see if you reckon they ought to take boxing seriously. You did nott spar for training. Until after Fuller made it popular anyway. Sadly Fuller never gets any attention from the so called historians who write books and make historical websites. He has no CBZ record let alone any boxrec coverage, and any time you'd see him in a book it's only in passing while the author details some other man's narrative. Usually Molyneaux because of his popularity, but Fuller fought many men so anecdotes about him do come up here in there.

8 John Graham Chambers - Wrote the Queensberry Rules. People just assume is the Marquess wrote them but no, some welsh rower. Chambers was also a very early promoter of the idea of an amateur league.

9 Jem Mace - Mace is really the man who went around the world making gloved boxing cool. The first world champion, he used his fame in America, England, and Australia to promote the use of gloves and queensberry rules in boxing. I believe Sullivan and co had a much easier time changing people's minds than they would have had Mace not started the process nearly two decades prior.

10 John L Sullivan - Finished what Mace started sure, but, he's also boxing first real super star. Mace, Cribb, Mendoza, Figg, all were popular, as ****, for their time but their times were too early for people to really know them. They would enjoy more fame in their retirement and death than they ever received while champion where as Sully was famous during a time when infrastructure in the major boxing nations was really starting to connect people in a meaningful way.

[aboutfkntime]

I think it's fair to say the HWs did carry boxing....I'm going to go a bit off subject and include non-fighters though


My ten:



1 James Figg - Kind of invented the industry. We focus a lot on Figg being a fighter, but, he's also a the first boxing trainer, first boxing manager, first venue owner in boxing, and first boxing promoter. So, like I said, he kind of invented the industry.

2 Jack Broughton - He's the guy who finished what Figg started. He didn't just write the rules, he looked back to the Greeks for answers and created things like boxing gloves so that he could spar nobility without hurting them and of course his famous pre-defined rules.

3 Daniel Mendoza - Defense in general. Mendoza brought the hit and don't be hit back style that most fighters employ today. Posture, positioning, footwork, counters, all the classic traits that make a great boxer Mendoza brought to he game. Also, he furthered James and Jack's industrial work by adding ticketing for events and promoting through the media to it. He was hated during his reign (for being ***ish) and revered during his retirement.

4 Tom Molyneaux - His rags to riches story inspired generations of fighters. Every black fighter half worth his salt would call themselves Molyneaux until men like Gans and Johnson would rise to prominence and take that honor.

5 Captain Barclay - Tom Cribb's trainer is the man responsible for dieting in boxing. Well, nutritional dieting rather than manly dieting in boxing. He had Cribb on salads, water, and juice. They were made fun of for having sworn off meat and alcohol but once Cribb fought people respected the edge a good diet gave him and mimicked it. I'm not sure, but, I think Tom Cribb is also one of the first vegans.

6 King George - we have belts instead of rings, trophies, medals, plaques, or any other form of a physical embodiment of an accolade because when Cribb beat Molyneaux King George had one belt made and given to Cribb and the British nobility had another created for Moly. The Cribb belt is the first championship belt in history.

7 William Fuller - Sparring was sort of like a test. You'd spar so that someone with no chance of beating you could test themselves against you. You'd spar rich folk who pay to take a beating as sort of a weird old timey novelty and you'd spar young hopefuls to see if you reckon they ought to take boxing seriously. You did nott spar for training. Until after Fuller made it popular anyway. Sadly Fuller never gets any attention from the so called historians who write books and make historical websites. He has no CBZ record let alone any boxrec coverage, and any time you'd see him in a book it's only in passing while the author details some other man's narrative. Usually Molyneaux because of his popularity, but Fuller fought many men so anecdotes about him do come up here in there.

8 John Graham Chambers - Wrote the Queensberry Rules. People just assume is the Marquess wrote them but no, some welsh rower. Chambers was also a very early promoter of the idea of an amateur league.

9 Jem Mace - Mace is really the man who went around the world making gloved boxing cool. The first world champion, he used his fame in America, England, and Australia to promote the use of gloves and queensberry rules in boxing. I believe Sullivan and co had a much easier time changing people's minds than they would have had Mace not started the process nearly two decades prior.

10 John L Sullivan - Finished what Mace started sure, but, he's also boxing first real super star. Mace, Cribb, Mendoza, Figg, all were popular, as ****, for their time but their times were too early for people to really know them. They would enjoy more fame in their retirement and death than they ever received while champion where as Sully was famous during a time when infrastructure in the major boxing nations was really starting to connect people in a meaningful way.

Jake Paul impacted boxing more than those bums, look at all those twitter followers

and Jake could probably beat half of those guys as well

































































yea I never hear Fig mentioned, or Broughton

[The plunger man]

1 Marquis of Queensbury ( created boxing as we know today)
2 John L Sullivan
3 jack Johnson
4 Jack Dempsey
5 sugar ray Robinson
6 joe Louis
7 Rocky Marciano
8 Muhammad Ali
9 sugar ray leonard
10 Mike Tyson
those are the fighters that in my opinion are the boxers that impacted boxing the most in there particular era

[Willie Pep 229]

So I was looking at a thread I made years ago about the top 10 fighters to have a social impact and it was pointed out that there were only heavyweights on the list. So I started thinking about it and doing a little research and found this article I found very interesting.... especially the inclusion of Chuck Wepner. But it actually gave a good explanation. Do you agree with this list, an or who would you put on yours and why?

https://syndication.bleacherreport.c...story.amp.html

I just posted this just two months ago as the Ten Most Important Fighters, so I'm on record.

1. Jack Dempsey
2. Joe Louis
3. Muhammad Ali
4. John L. Sullivan
5. James J. Corbett
7. Jack Johnson
7. Sugar Ray Leonard
8. Mike Tyson
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Rocky Marciano

Someone suggested I should also add Willie Pep for innovating the game technique wise and I agree.

As to that list you sent me to: the first two names are just plain clueless, Wepner and Mayweather?

Nonsense! Any influence those two may have had was out done by SRL. Both can only be identified as important to bringing in the casual fan, but Leonard did that in spades making the other two unnecessary.

The rest of the list is classic, with the inclusion of Del La Hoya as an interesting addition. A maybe!

But Wepner being a major influence on the game, me thinks the writer watches way too much TV.

[DeeMoney]

Are you asking which boxers most impacted boxing, or which most impacted society?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Sullivan, Corbett, Dempsey, Pep had the biggest impact

Then there's guys
Guys like O'Brien, McFarland, Britton, the Gibbons brothers, Loughran, Benny Leonard, Tunney, Midget Wolgast, Ray Robinson

Ali and Tyson probably deserve mention for keeping interest in the sport alive. Mayweather and Ray Leonard, too.

[billeau2]

I think it's fair to say the HWs did carry boxing....I'm going to go a bit off subject and include non-fighters though


My ten:



1 James Figg - Kind of invented the industry. We focus a lot on Figg being a fighter, but, he's also a the first boxing trainer, first boxing manager, first venue owner in boxing, and first boxing promoter. So, like I said, he kind of invented the industry.

2 Jack Broughton - He's the guy who finished what Figg started. He didn't just write the rules, he looked back to the Greeks for answers and created things like boxing gloves so that he could spar nobility without hurting them and of course his famous pre-defined rules.

3 Daniel Mendoza - Defense in general. Mendoza brought the hit and don't be hit back style that most fighters employ today. Posture, positioning, footwork, counters, all the classic traits that make a great boxer Mendoza brought to he game. Also, he furthered James and Jack's industrial work by adding ticketing for events and promoting through the media to it. He was hated during his reign (for being ***ish) and revered during his retirement.

4 Tom Molyneaux - His rags to riches story inspired generations of fighters. Every black fighter half worth his salt would call themselves Molyneaux until men like Gans and Johnson would rise to prominence and take that honor.

5 Captain Barclay - Tom Cribb's trainer is the man responsible for dieting in boxing. Well, nutritional dieting rather than manly dieting in boxing. He had Cribb on salads, water, and juice. They were made fun of for having sworn off meat and alcohol but once Cribb fought people respected the edge a good diet gave him and mimicked it. I'm not sure, but, I think Tom Cribb is also one of the first vegans.

6 King George - we have belts instead of rings, trophies, medals, plaques, or any other form of a physical embodiment of an accolade because when Cribb beat Molyneaux King George had one belt made and given to Cribb and the British nobility had another created for Moly. The Cribb belt is the first championship belt in history.

7 William Fuller - Sparring was sort of like a test. You'd spar so that someone with no chance of beating you could test themselves against you. You'd spar rich folk who pay to take a beating as sort of a weird old timey novelty and you'd spar young hopefuls to see if you reckon they ought to take boxing seriously. You did nott spar for training. Until after Fuller made it popular anyway. Sadly Fuller never gets any attention from the so called historians who write books and make historical websites. He has no CBZ record let alone any boxrec coverage, and any time you'd see him in a book it's only in passing while the author details some other man's narrative. Usually Molyneaux because of his popularity, but Fuller fought many men so anecdotes about him do come up here in there.

8 John Graham Chambers - Wrote the Queensberry Rules. People just assume is the Marquess wrote them but no, some welsh rower. Chambers was also a very early promoter of the idea of an amateur league.

9 Jem Mace - Mace is really the man who went around the world making gloved boxing cool. The first world champion, he used his fame in America, England, and Australia to promote the use of gloves and queensberry rules in boxing. I believe Sullivan and co had a much easier time changing people's minds than they would have had Mace not started the process nearly two decades prior.

10 John L Sullivan - Finished what Mace started sure, but, he's also boxing first real super star. Mace, Cribb, Mendoza, Figg, all were popular, as ****, for their time but their times were too early for people to really know them. They would enjoy more fame in their retirement and death than they ever received while champion where as Sully was famous during a time when infrastructure in the major boxing nations was really starting to connect people in a meaningful way.

Great List! Better than anything I could come up with...
EDIT Better than anything I could come up with by Far!

[billeau2]

I am not ashamed to say that my list is heavily influenced by research done my Margiano. Especially concerning "Figg."

1. James Figg, who took the idea of glory, individual ritualized combat, characteristic of fencing and plugged into previous traditions involving boxing.

2. The Marquis of Queensbury, with much respect for the actual writer of the document... Probably saved countless lives, giving the nobility a way to settle honor disputes without killing each other. Think for a moment of how many families... "sorry dear children, your father was called a name by a cruel roustabout with a sword and was compelled to fight a duel, and lost..." Could now say "Your father and Mr Smith smacked each other around, hugged grabbed a beer, apologized and all is good!"

3. Jack Johnson Fought in a style that brought to the surface some of the best features of the classical style of boxing. Probably developed the jab from the lead... This is conjecture on my part but watching Johnson one can see for the first time hand rotation on the lead which makes it a jab.

4. Jack Dempsey who in his epic tome on punching, firmly and popularly established methods of boxing grounded in the punches and not on sword vocabulary, distancing, and body postures. Dempsey brought to bare as the front runner in the premier division, concepts of segmented movement (moving different parts of the body in sequence) such as head and shoulder movements, etc.

Dempsey also gave us a record: His fights with Tunney actually showcase differences in his approach and classical boxing, of which Tunney was a master, in addition to using post classical technques... we actually see the two styles against each other in the ring. And of course... his book.

5. Jack BlackBurn/ Joe Louis. Louis showed us the Greek concept of Arete, technique excellence, and brought it to bare. Blackburn was instrumental in training Louis... a virtual Platonic, perfect archetypical embodiment of the punches. While Dempsey laid the groundwork, Louis' work showed perfection of technique.

And Louis was able to carry that mantle... He was adored. He was humble, and he was damn good! Louis showed us that economy of movement, cutting off the ring, moving with deliberation were all part of setting up the punches... and none did it better until Louis set the mold.

6. Rocky Marciano/Charlie Goldman boxing had become laden with so much talent... Sugar Ray, and the cincinnati Cobra, Moore, Louis, Oy Vay! What about the common fella! Where was the guy with heart and determination? overcoming odds? where was the vision for such a character? Fullmer? well sort of... but as we all know it aint real until it reaches the apex division.

here comes this guy... And he got nuthin but a punch and a prayer. Goldman had vision and the rest is history. Marciano was the mold for guys like Gatti, and the movie Rocky. Sure there had been some great brawlers before him... Guys like toney Galento, But marciano won big! He beat some of the most technically gifted fighters ever, and he did it being deceptively skilled, and well trained, and with the kind of will that was extraordinary.

6.5 Don King. Begrugingly I include this master criminal...we will call him 6.5 as he hardly deserves to stand next to Ali. King is one of the most intelligent Sociopaths... The man survived the crime wars in Cleveland, managing to avoid attempts on his life, and wait between the limes as the big boys literally blew each other to smithereens.

King like a lot of intelligent inmates learned while in prison, and became enriched at the expense of fighters... But King also put together great fight cards, promoted fights like no one else could and managed to become iconic. Credit where credit is due...

7. Ali! Ali said some of the ******est things, he was arrogant... And he was alas human... And when Ali spoke intelligently he said amazing things that were courageous and the opposite of the self serving ways portrayed. Ali went against most of the boxing establishment on Vietnam and sacrificed some of his best years. Ali was universally loved by all. He was the complete package: beautiful, intelligent, passionate, intelligent, persistent, and an amazing fighter.

8. Howard Cosel. Cosel was often hated. he would manhandle tired fighters for an interview after a long fight, was sarcastic, bombastic... My parents used to curse at him during Ali's fights lol.

Cosel also supported Ali's stance and stood by Ali when most of his coleagues would not do so. Cosel also showed that having intellect was not anathema to the Sweet Science. It took me being an adult to appreciate Howard.

9. Tyson Fury Fury has shown that coming from a subculture, does not prevent one from embracing the world. He has been honest about overcoming great maladies like depression and shown the kind of greatness, getting off the canvas ala Wilder, that we saw with marciano and Ali.

I see greatness for the Gypsy King, who moves like fighters used to when they started at a young age, who has a family who trains fighters as a full time vocation... Could we be seeing a renaissance? A time when fighters were bred that way, taught how to move in a ring at an early age?

So on my list are some prejudices, some blindspots, so to speak. foremost among them: I use heavyweights to mark the greatest epoches. I do this deliberately. When we see the expression of something come into the premier division, it shows that it has took. Things like the lineal, and technical developments will eventually come into the heavyweight division because there is still a magic to being a heavyweight champion in boxing. I embrace that tradition.

[BattlingNelson]

I like the list. Also cool that it has more modern fighters than I would have expected. I do feel that the list is biased towards America. Boxing is today a global sport and there definetely should be room for Eastern Europeans. I’d say that Wlad Klitschko should be on the list as he, in a global sense, surely has had a huge impact.