Was Sam Langford the best fighter ever?

[ShoulderRoll]

Merit? Seems like merit is the sole avenue Sam has no argument for Rock.

Skills, resume, things like that Sam can hold water and make a case. Merit? Um, one of them is the only undefeated HW champion in gloved history and the other is not even a recognized champion.


Personally I am willing to elevate the Colored, NSC, and IBU titles but until the boxing community agrees those titles are not equal or even close to Marciano's.

I don't look so much at the titles, Marchegiano.

Just the fact that Sam was able to give top fighters hell at lightweight, welterweight, middleweight, light heavyweight, and heavyweight.

That's pure class as a fighting man.

[billeau2]

Well that's good to hear!

See what good it does you to get out of New York - even if only once in a while?

It's a big world out there. You should see it. Expand your mind. Test your comfort zone. Make your own conclusions about things, rather than relying on the accounts of others.

Growth is a positive thing, even if the first steps are scary.

This was the healthiest thing i've heard from you in a long time.

Want to hear something funny? I am developing land and setting up a household with my wife in Winnemucca NV... we have an empty nest and its not far from San Francisco where we lived many years... So get this: This is remote location where people have lots get well and septic, its not in town, thats for sure... There are 4 New yorkers who have homes in the development! Maybe out of 18 people or so total. How about those odds! lol.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I don't look so much at the titles, Marchegiano.

Just the fact that Sam was able to give top fighters hell at lightweight, welterweight, middleweight, light heavyweight, and heavyweight.

That's pure class as a fighting man.

So beating up on smaller dudes is more impressive than beating up on bigger dudes?



Yup, that's par for the course, coming from an idiot like you.


Langford got beat by dudes who couldn't carry Marciano's jockstrap.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Langford was a middleweight/light heavyweight at best and he was knocking out heavyweights past his prime and perhaps half blind. Anyone who feels the need to put down this universally considered ATG and p4p ATG just reveals their shortcomings. Sam should logically never have fought as a heavyweight yet he was the most feared in that division for years.

So if you ever need evidence for why siblings shouldn't have children together, here you go ^.


Sam only spent about 5 years of his decades-long career below Heavyweight.

Light Heavyweight did not exist yet.

He was consistently weighing-in over the modern Light Heavyweight limit as early at 1911.

While he often fought larger men, they almost never weighed over 200 pounds. And their records were pretty abysmal.

He also fought SMALLER men. In fact, the best names on his record were smaller men; often outside their best years.

We also, of course, have footage of Langford which clearly shows he no where close to the greatest fighters in terms of skill.

Even in his day, men like McGovern, McFarland, Britton, brothers Gibbons, Wilde and Lewis were all better. And his victories over Gans and Walcott don't preclude that they were (P4P) better, too. Contemporaries thought as much. But suddenly WOKE Bros on da' Net, who never saw any of them, know better...

[Rusty Tromboni]

Want to hear something funny? I am developing land and setting up a household with my wife in Winnemucca NV... we have an empty nest and its not far from San Francisco where we lived many years... So get this: This is remote location where people have lots get well and septic, its not in town, thats for sure... There are 4 New yorkers who have homes in the development! Maybe out of 18 people or so total. How about those odds! lol.

that's ironic. But I am very happy for you. I think it's a great fit.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Merit? Seems like merit is the sole avenue Sam has no argument for Rock.

Skills, resume, things like that Sam can hold water and make a case. Merit? Um, one of them is the only undefeated HW champion in gloved history and the other is not even a recognized champion.


Personally I am willing to elevate the Colored, NSC, and IBU titles but until the boxing community agrees those titles are not equal or even close to Marciano's.

Langford was fairly advanced for his time. Not a front-runner, necessarily, but definitely one of the more skilled fighters of his era. Probably the most skilled Heavyweight outside of McCarty, who's a bit of a mystery.

But Marciano was skilled in his own way. Where as caricatures of Sam are too generous, caricatures of Marciano are grossly unflattering and not well-anchored to reality.

Marciano was the better of the two at not getting hit and applying constant pressure. I get it, it came along later than Sam and had a great coach. So it's a bit unfair to Sam to evaluate him in a 1950's lens. But Marciano learned his skills very, very quickly. The fighters he was facing were among the most skilled of the day and had no real answer for him.

While Sam was a Boxer-Puncher and Marciano was a Swarmer, I don't think it's fair to call Sam more skilled than Marciano.

Also, what was Sam's best win? Walcott?

McFadden and O'brien were old, and shouldn't have even been fighting still.

While he didn't beat Ketchel, some people say he did. Who knows? 6 Rounds doesn't really say a lot. What we do know was Stan was smaller and far less experienced. Even if Stan won that fight, he was almost certainly on his way out as a professional. Shortly after the fight he headed out West to clean up. Ironically, his attempt to save his career cost him his life.

Norfolk was even more green than Ketchel, and gave up even more weight.

Gans was a Lightweight, not a Welterweight; he could have refused to fight Sam for coming in over-weight (Gans came in underweight), and had fought Dave Holly (at that time a better known and out-right better fighter than Sam) the night before back in Philly.

Wills - well, we have seen how bad he was. But even if you want to pretend that Will was good, when Wills was losing to Sam he was very green. Soon he established himself as the better fighter. Unlike Walcott, Gans and Ketchel, he got a return attempt (or 5) to really set the record straight.

I am not suggesting Sam wasn't great. But he didn't fight anyone as good as a prime Ezzard Charles, Joe Walcott, or Archie Moore.

[HOUDINI563]

Sam beat Gans and should have gotten the nod vs the original Joe Walcott. He had wins over Philadelphia Jack Obrien, Kid Norfolk, Stanley Ketchel, Gunboat Smith, Dixie Kid, Jack Blackburn, George Godfrey. Sam held KO wins over all the top black heavyweight fighters of the day aside from Johnson. A who’s who of the greatest fighters of that era. Langford has been universally termed one of the greatest p4p fighters ever to live for many many decades. His ability to generate absurd punching power is documented by Harry Wills as one example. Your attempts to degrade Langford add more fuel to the fire that further illustrates your ignorance.

[billeau2]

that's ironic. But I am very happy for you. I think it's a great fit.

Gee thanks... Now lets get you straight on some of the latest Blowhard crap you are sprouting. You cannot classify Langford's style next to Marciano because they fought two distinct styles of boxing. Sam fought in an era where footwork, distance, fighting in the clinches, was more emphasized. Marciano fought in the era of the puncher... different glove size, different way of throwing punches, etc.

[billeau2]

So beating up on smaller dudes is more impressive than beating up on bigger dudes?



Yup, that's par for the course, coming from an idiot like you.


Langford got beat by dudes who couldn't carry Marciano's jockstrap.

Ridiculous thing to say... And I like both fighters, its not about the comparison. Saying something like that without qualifying it should be grounds for a pimp slap.

[HOUDINI563]

https://*************/watch?v=JUdoGBkeqWQ