The Most Complete Boxer Ever

[DeeMoney]

Leonard beat him convincingly in the rematch after losing a razor thin decision fighting durans fight....plus Duran got knocked out by hearns , outpointed by Benitez and hagler so no Duran is not a more complete fighter because if he was he would have won vs Benitez and not koed by hearns.
Complete you need to read a dictionary to see what that word means

Its interesting you bring up Duran's later career. For me, I assume judge their 'completeness' by what they were at their peak; as such evaluating Duran in his 30s at JMW would be disingenuous (judging him in his prime at LW is what I would do).

But then again, I tend to look at prime in virtually all of these types of discussions. Now I wonder, to what extent is longevity and being successful at various weight classes part of what we should evaluate?

[The Old LefHook]

I'v never even heard of Griffith being on such a list. He does not belong there. No surprise, of course, it was Rusty.

[The plunger man]

Its interesting you bring up Duran's later career. For me, I assume judge their 'completeness' by what they were at their peak; as such evaluating Duran in his 30s at JMW would be disingenuous (judging him in his prime at LW is what I would do).

But then again, I tend to look at prime in virtually all of these types of discussions. Now I wonder, to what extent is longevity and being successful at various weight classes part of what we should evaluate?

Yeah but in the end when it comes to complete it’s how that fighter coped with different styles....we know Duran struggled with pure boxers and movers and when Duran came up against the best of the best in that department he did lose.
I love Duran and I think he is amazing but if it’s complete Then in my opinion comes up short to a sugar ray leonard.
Longevity in my opinion should not be part of complete when judging a fighter.
When Duran came and beat Barkley in early 1989 he was then comprehensively outboxed by Leonard 9 months later.
Duran is my 2nd favourite fighter and a true legend but if we are judging a fighter on how complete they are they have to able to deal with and over comes all styles and Duran didn’t do that but leonard did

[The plunger man]

I'v never even heard of Griffith being on such a list. He does not belong there. No surprise, of course, it was Rusty.

rusty is not dealing with a full deck upstairs leftie

[billeau2]

Only criticism against Leonard is with the Hagler fight because he admittedly waited out Hagler until Marvin was past prime enough for that fight to be less of a risk. Something Mayweather would later become known for, whether that was his fault or not.

Yup. I agree. You will notice that in my arguments on the thread for Ray I do not mention the Hagler fight.

[billeau2]

I'v never even heard of Griffith being on such a list. He does not belong there. No surprise, of course, it was Rusty.

Easy your talking about August's Churl of the month... Queenie lost it this month in their back and fourth battle.

[Anthony342]

look we can alll make excuses why hagler lost to leonard.....if leonard never suffered a detached retina in 1982 the fight would have happened full stop...leonard was never worried about hagler and his resume was packed with fighters who brought terror to opponents...Duran , hearns ettc ...leonard always boxed the best, as Duran he signed an immediate rematch to face leonard and that’s his problem if he cannot maintain disclipine...he’s a paid proffesional and world champion....you cannot just go away party non stop and not face his duties....did leonard use that to his advantage yeah he probably did but boxing is a tactical sport along with physical and if you don’t know that you shouldn’t be talking about world class boxing.
Leonard suffered a detached retina and at that time was a career ending injury and surgery was not really known success rate so for you to talk about he should have continued you sir are clueless....when you have made millions , yiu have a wife , your family are pressuring you to hang the gloves up and risk going blind if the eye fails what are you going to do...and that’s why leonard retired and it’s also the reason why we know now that leonard hit the bottle , took ******* and became an alcoholic to try and numb the feeling of being out the ring.....1984 he looked medicocre and got knocked down and retired again because he knew he needed to be better.
Hagler spent years trying to coax smaller fighters up to meet him and did it with Duran , hearns , mugabi and he thought he would do the same to leonard.
****ing 5 years leonard had 1 fight and that’s all and hagler was active , 2 years before had his best moment in knocking out hearns.....hagler thought he would destroy leonard and he came unstuck and Leonard was naturally smaller by 2 weight divisions and still came back and beat a bigger more active fighter....I remember reading a quote by Marcos Geraldo when they asked him who he thought would win and he said Leonard and he said he was more refined , had more skill and a better boxer.
Leonard outboxed hagler and he would have beat him 1982...he had that extra bit that always makes a fighter pull through in the end.
Hagler drawing with antuerfermo , getting outboxed by willie monroe , drawing with sugar ray searles , loosing to boogaloo watts and scraping past a fighter that was naturally a lightweight in Duran who then said to leonard you will beat him.
So yes leonard was a real complete fighter and he proved it

It's not an excuse. It's a legit reason. I don't know why you deny it when Leonard himself has said he did it. Watch one of the Sportscentury docs on Hagler or Leonard or the Legendary Nights episode on Hagler/Leonard to see him mention this. And I didn't criticise the rest of Leonard's resume, did I, so stop putting words in my mouth. It wasn't just that Hagler wanted smaller guys, but most of those guys were big names and meant big paydays for him. Who else would guarantee big money for Hagler? Not anyone at middle weight at that time. Leonard was in attendance for the Mugabi fight, saw Hagler had declined enough and said "I could beat him" and finally made the fight happen. If he needed to be better in 1984, then instead of retiring, how about going back into the gym, training and fighting some more tune ups before fighting Hagler? But no, instead he runs away and retires, making that charade of an in ring press conference with Hagler and Hearns in attendance.

[The plunger man]

It's not an excuse. It's a legit reason. I don't know why you deny it when Leonard himself has said he did it. Watch one of the Sportscentury docs on Hagler or Leonard or the Legendary Nights episode on Hagler/Leonard to see him mention this. And I didn't criticise the rest of Leonard's resume, did I, so stop putting words in my mouth. It wasn't just that Hagler wanted smaller guys, but most of those guys were big names and meant big paydays for him. Who else would guarantee big money for Hagler? Not anyone at middle weight at that time. Leonard was in attendance for the Mugabi fight, saw Hagler had declined enough and said "I could beat him" and finally made the fight happen. If he needed to be better in 1984, then instead of retiring, how about going back into the gym, training and fighting some more tune ups before fighting Hagler? But no, instead he runs away and retires, making that charade of an in ring press conference with Hagler and Hearns in attendance.

leonard would always have beaten hagler and he did that after 1 fight in 5 years and being smaller by 2 weight divisions ...hagler .actually even conceded 12 rounds because he wanted a bigger purse and he thought he would have knocked leonard out and only complained about the rounds after he lost to leonard....never mentioned it when he had victories over Hearns and mugabi lol
Look ant your a hagler man and I’m a leonard man and my guy beat your guy and if leonard never sustained his injury it would have happened for sure in late 1982 or early 1983 but it didn’t.
Leonard was also nowhere near his best in 1987
Leonard has actually said that he should have evaluated it more when taking a knee jerk reaction after his fight with Howard and he should have weighed it up more but he said he was under enormous pressure from his wife and his expectations on how he should perform.
But we are not him and we don’t know what was going through his mind and that’s why he hit the bottle and ******* after big time.
I’ve seen this video many times and I know what leonard said and although he said hagler had slipped so had leonard so in my book it was pretty even terms

[MDPopescu]

Ray Robinson.

End of thread..…..Rockin'

You are subscribing to all the myths, I see.

Robinson got hit way too much to be the most complete fighter ever. He was a great fighter, and maybe the greatest fighter ever overall, but that does not make him the most COMPLETE boxer at all. He is not even close to that. It was a mediocre ring general who over exerted himself against the mediocre Maxim and lost as a result.

Now come back with how hot it was that night. Duh!

I hear ya, but in the Maxim fight what was the temperature that night. Where the ref had to be replaced because of the heat. And that's just the referee walking around, keeping it clean. Could you imagine having to fight in those temperatures? Those were the temperatures that James had to have it up in Galaxy. Extreme heat!

That fight? ……..Rockin'

SRR all day long...

[HandsofIron]

Leonard beat him convincingly in the rematch after losing a razor thin decision fighting durans fight....plus Duran got knocked out by hearns , outpointed by Benitez and hagler so no Duran is not a more complete fighter because if he was he would have won vs Benitez and not koed by hearns.
Complete you need to read a dictionary to see what that word means

You're forgetting that the fights with Hearns and Benitez took place at 154 and Hagler at 160, 3 and 4 divisions above Duran's natural weight.