Tunney versus Louis who wins?

[billeau2]

About as easy to predict as Foreman smashing swarmers like Tyson. Louis loses this one badly.

High IQ movement based boxers who can take a punch spell trouble for him. A guy like Tunney is just amazing with the way he could keep that effective footwork up for so many rounds without losing steam.

Louis wouldn't find him, he has a puncher's chance though. I always felt that Louis does badly in head to head matchups against different era's. A lot of people are too emotional when discussing this great fighter, you can just tell how much the idolism and adoration is affecting their judgement.

Wow! What a great post!!! Very well said.

As a philosopher I appreciate life's ironies. They make me realize there is probably more to this thing... Ironies teach us that inconsistency is the stuff of life, it makes us laugh, sometimes cry... But it always make us dig deeper...

So, many people could present an argument for Louis being the best fighter ever...I know I know, let me finish... Louis, unlike Armstrong, or Robinson, fought in the premier division. Louis has the form that shows up on film, one can see the best punching dynamics...and Louis beat so many in his reign. These are fairly good indicators of greatness.

Yet, Louis matches up poorly lol. I mean Ali outspeeds him, Dempsey possibly out slugs him, Marciano may have out gutted him in his prime, and Tunney certainly beats him... Im stopping there lol. I lied... Liston would probably beat Louis with his size and brawn, or at least make a fight out of it. Holmes? good fight as well... Oh the irony!

[BKM-]

Wow! What a great post!!! Very well said.

As a philosopher I appreciate life's ironies. They make me realize there is probably more to this thing... Ironies teach us that inconsistency is the stuff of life, it makes us laugh, sometimes cry... But it always make us dig deeper...

So, many people could present an argument for Louis being the best fighter ever...I know I know, let me finish... Louis, unlike Armstrong, or Robinson, fought in the premier division. Louis has the form that shows up on film, one can see the best punching dynamics...and Louis beat so many in his reign. These are fairly good indicators of greatness.

Yet, Louis matches up poorly lol. I mean Ali outspeeds him, Dempsey possibly out slugs him, Marciano may have out gutted him in his prime, and Tunney certainly beats him... Im stopping there lol. I lied... Liston would probably beat Louis with his size and brawn, or at least make a fight out of it. Holmes? good fight as well... Oh the irony!

You just broke the unspoken rule, bud. Lol, I grew out of that phase long ago but others are still stuck in it, I just can't pretend anymore that Louis can match up well head to head with greats from other era's.

All the stylistic problems he would face and not to mention he was so vulnerable even against the level of competition he faced in his prime. That's where the irrational love for the man comes back into play, imagine the criticsm other ATG HW's would face from Louis fans if hey were hurt and knocked down as many times against that level of competition. Just the names you mentioned, I can't imagine them getting decked by Two Ton Galento or KO'd by Schmeling in their prime.

I hope one day people realize that greatness and head to head matchups of different era's are two different things and stop mixing them.

[billeau2]

You just broke the unspoken rule, bud. Lol, I grew out of that phase long ago but others are still stuck in it, I just can't pretend anymore that Louis can match up well head to head with greats from other era's.

All the stylistic problems he would face and not to mention he was so vulnerable even against the level of competition he faced in his prime. That's where the irrational love for the man comes back into play, imagine the criticsm other ATG HW's would face from Louis fans if hey were hurt and knocked down as many times against that level of competition. Just the names you mentioned, I can't imagine them getting decked by Two Ton Galento or KO'd by Schmeling in their prime.

I hope one day people realize that greatness and head to head matchups of different era's are two different things and stop mixing them.

I think it has to do with how one trains to box. Take a fighter like Holy...I seem to remember you are quite fond of the B@st@rd Maker. He is exceptional in that he trained to really box and to really slug, and he can adapt either style, despite his obvious preference for slugging it out. He is so coachable because of that as well. I think he was scared about Tyson (who would not be) so he just listened to his corner! And when he handled Bowe boxing, that was another major fiat.

But most fighters learn a style that has good and bad points. This makes them quite vulnerable to other styles that potentiate a problem for them. Louis was remarkable. he used his style so expertly and consistently. I think Galento and Schmelling were underestimated fighters in many respects, but I would look at the problems presented by Conn for example, actually Conn and Schmelling.

Louis could be outfoxed by the crafty boxer and this means that he needed that 15 round championship fight.

[ShoulderRoll]

A good boxer almost always beats a good puncher/pressure fighter. Boxing history is riddled with examples.

So I pick Tunney.

Marciano had no chance in hell against prime Joe Louis, though. Talk about people being emotional about certain fighters...

[Willie Pep 229]

A good boxer almost always beats a good puncher/pressure fighter. Boxing history is riddled with examples.

So I pick Tunney.

Marciano had no chance in hell against prime Joe Louis, though. Talk about people being emotional about certain fighters...

I recognize you used the word 'almost' but I wonder if the % of boxer-over-puncher wins is actually that disproportionate?

I agree with you in general, but your statement, is maybe too absolute?

I started to make a list of the reverse, (as we do here on the board) e.g. Chavez-Taylor, Marciano-Walcott, but realized all does is start and argument that almost always (LOL) doesn't have an answer.

But IMO the game is never simple; I'm not sure this is provable, either way.

[ShoulderRoll]

I recognize you used the word 'almost' but I wonder if the % of boxer-over-puncher wins is actually that disproportionate?

I agree with you in general, but your statement, is maybe too absolute?

I started to make a list of the reverse, (as we do here on the board) e.g. Chavez-Taylor, Marciano-Walcott, but realized all does is start and argument that almost always (LOL) doesn't have an answer.

But IMO the game is never simple; I'm not sure this is provable, either way.

Think of almost any superfight and this is usually how it turns out.

Dempsey vs Tunney
Ali vs Liston/Frazier/Foreman
Leonard vs Hagler
Whitaker vs Chavez

Of course there are some examples to the contrary. It's not 100%. But I would be willing to bet that a statistical study would back this up.

[The Old LefHook]

Dempsey, Marciano and Tunney form the mighty triumvirate of heavyweights. Jeff would be a fight for them all. The second tier of Johnson, Louis & Clay were good too, and have nothing to be ashamed of.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

However it goes it's a tough fight for Louis but he would manage.

[billeau2]

A good boxer almost always beats a good puncher/pressure fighter. Boxing history is riddled with examples.

So I pick Tunney.

Marciano had no chance in hell against prime Joe Louis, though. Talk about people being emotional about certain fighters...

The first statement is why we stacked the deck against punchers so badly when we cut the championship rounds from 15 to 12. Its built into the odds of connecting for the puncher.

I don't know on that second one. I think that fight could go either way. Marciano always made it hard to bet against him. I would think that Louis was good enough to find him, but I could see Marciano presenting problems to him as well. I go back and fourth on this one lol.

[HOUDINI563]

Issue is no heavyweight fighter since Louis has anywhere near his skill level. Louis was the greatest boxer puncher who ever lived. It’s not close. Louis would knock out top heavyweights in any era. He was a great technical fighter and he could knock an opponent unconscious with one punch from either fist.