Max Schmeling vs Archie Moore

[uncle ben]

Obviously moore wouldn't beat max. Just saying it wouldn't be a complete 1 round whitewash.

I don't think that it's obvious that Moore wouldn't beat Max. It's probable that he could

[Rusty Tromboni]

I don't think that it's obvious that Moore wouldn't beat Max. It's probable that he could

What alternate dimension are you reading us from?

[uncle ben]

What alternate dimension are you reading us from?

What do you mean?

[billeau2]

Schmeling was either the worlds hwt champion or a leading contender from 1928 to 1938. It’s been lost in time the sensation he caused when he first began fighting in the states. Record crowds with thousands turned away at the door. Schmeling was a tremendous right hand puncher and a clever boxer. He was the best fighter to hold the championship between Tunney to Louis. Max at his best kos Moore.

You really think so? I mean Moore has a great Beard and all... You raised a good point about some of Schmeling's attributes. I am actually inclined to think this through. Im not disagreeing just find it hard to imagine anyone but a real swarmer, or puncher knocking Archie for a loop... Then again Burley really made him look bad allegedlly (according to Archie as well) and who would of thought the Mongoose would be outboxed so decisevly?

[Rusty Tromboni]

What do you mean?

Here on Earth we know Max Schmeling to have been a great fighter, but Archie Moore only a very good one.

Schmeling ascended to the top quicker. Did more with less opportunity. Had more physical assets. And he performed against & beat a higher level of competition.

Moore always lost when fighting men of Max's calibre. And was knocked out by lesser punchers. And for all his craft, never had that natural trap-setting ability that the Black Uhlan had.

What's the story on your planet?

[Rusty Tromboni]

You really think so? I mean Moore has a great Beard and all... You raised a good point about some of Schmeling's attributes. I am actually inclined to think this through. Im not disagreeing just find it hard to imagine anyone but a real swarmer, or puncher knocking Archie for a loop... Then again Burley really made him look bad allegedlly (according to Archie as well) and who would of thought the Mongoose would be outboxed so decisevly?

Still no desire to watch the fights?

Don't make life harder than it has to be.

Lesser fighters and lesser punchers beat Moore.

I'm not aware of Max ever losing to anyone as bad as Moore. Definitely Max actually won the Heavyweight championship... and was screwed out of winning it back.

Moore, conversely, boiled down to Light Heavyweight just to feel like a champion. To get a faint idea of what Max experienced.

Schmeling did all this in a far more difficult era of course, without the luxurious benefits Moore enjoyed. And he didn't need to fight for decades to figure out what worked.

As for Moore losing to Burley, for a guy who spends more time reading tall tales than watching film you should know what Billy Conn said to Archie Moore, when Moore asked why they never fought. "You weren't good enough."

The funniest jokes are the truest. Moore might've been a very good Middleweight, but he definitely wasn't great. He began to blossom at Light Heavyweight and really found himself at Heavyweight.

Burley on the other hand was in his prime. And was a tremendous puncher. He seems to have been what Jimmy Braddock was TRYING to be.

Moore, like Charles, seems to have originated as a crude brawler, who survived where his contemporaries failed by adding layers and defense to their game.

WWII caused a mass-extinction event. It allowed guys like Louis and Robinson to stay on top even longer. And it allowed guys like Moore and Charles time to hone their craft to rise to the top; whereas pre-WWII, they might not have made it.

[billeau2]

Still no desire to watch the fights?

Don't make life harder than it has to be.

Lesser fighters and lesser punchers beat Moore.

I'm not aware of Max ever losing to anyone as bad as Moore. Definitely Max actually won the Heavyweight championship... and was screwed out of winning it back.

Moore, conversely, boiled down to Light Heavyweight just to feel like a champion. To get a faint idea of what Max experienced.

Schmeling did all this in a far more difficult era of course, without the luxurious benefits Moore enjoyed. And he didn't need to fight for decades to figure out what worked.

As for Moore losing to Burley, for a guy who spends more time reading tall tales than watching film you should know what Billy Conn said to Archie Moore, when Moore asked why they never fought. "You weren't good enough."

The funniest jokes are the truest. Moore might've been a very good Middleweight, but he definitely wasn't great. He began to blossom at Light Heavyweight and really found himself at Heavyweight.

Burley on the other hand was in his prime. And was a tremendous puncher. He seems to have been what Jimmy Braddock was TRYING to be.

Moore, like Charles, seems to have originated as a crude brawler, who survived where his contemporaries failed by adding layers and defense to their game.

WWII caused a mass-extinction event. It allowed guys like Louis and Robinson to stay on top even longer. And it allowed guys like Moore and Charles time to hone their craft to rise to the top; whereas pre-WWII, they might not have made it.

Read up to the point of Burley was a tremendous puncher. Do your homework Trombone.... You play with the adults you don't get to say things like that.

[billeau2]

I don't think that it's obvious that Moore wouldn't beat Max. It's probable that he could

It is far from obvious...and if Max turned out at anything but his absolute best Max probably loses... Braddock beat the snot out of him.

Moore is a bad match up for Max...bottom line. He would outbox Max and has a great beard. So even if Max catches him, Moore might ride it out.

You always have to give Max a puncher's chance... Let me put it this way: My old man used to take lots of walks with me and our dog "Poochie" (Dad did you say hello to Poochie in heaven?) and we would pass this really exclusive Butcher shop. My dad took it as a chance to explain to me what made those steaks so nice, and we both got pretty hungry watching hunks of dried beef that was very expensive, far too much for us lol."

I had to throw that story in for the Trombone...he likes em though he won't admit it... So when I look at Max and think, "wow if this guy had taken boxing seriously!" Its kind of like my dad and I saying "wow if we could get one of those haunches from Lobells home to mom...."

But alas, I don't have the desire for a great steak I once had, we never did get meat from Lobells, and I couldn't eat half of one now...and Max? well a great guy he was, very talented but never developed enough to reach his potential.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Read up to the point of Burley was a tremendous puncher. Do your homework Trombone.... You play with the adults you don't get to say things like that.

Hahahaha!

I love you, Kitten!

You read half of my very long post. Realized you got completely creamed and then looked for an escape root.

You're not getting off that easy. You need to learn your place.

So I base my statement on film and DOCUMENTED fact. While you, per usual, simply decide to parrot what (you think) you read. I get it, in New York you've made guys like little Mikey Bloomburg very rich, and clowns like the Cuomos very powerful. But get outside New York, expand your mind. It's different in the real world. You gotta know what you're saying can be substantiated by fact.

More than half Burley's wins were by KO.

He was the ONLY man to stop PRIME Holman Williams (in what might've been their most important fight); one of only 3 total... in hundreds of fights.

He stopped both Hogues.

He gave Bivins an absolute pasting.

While Moore was at least a decade and 30 lbs. short of his best, he was still an elite and experienced fighter entering the Burley fight. No one else had given him that kind of beating.

We see Oakland in full respect of Burley's punch.

Soooo you CAN say he was too passive. You CAN say he was overwhelmed by aggressive fighters. You CAN say he was limited offensively. But you can NOT deny his power. You're trap in a world that tells you everything is black and white. But I've proven there's nuance.

See how it works? That rundown wasn't too hard was it? Even the pine boards, put up more resistance. Just a quick stop to BoxRec, and a visit to YouTube and you're set.

[Rusty Tromboni]

It is far from obvious...and if Max turned out at anything but his absolute best Max probably loses... Braddock beat the snot out of him.

Moore is a bad match up for Max...bottom line. He would outbox Max and has a great beard. So even if Max catches him, Moore might ride it out.

You always have to give Max a puncher's chance... Let me put it this way: My old man used to take lots of walks with me and our dog "Poochie" (Dad did you say hello to Poochie in heaven?) and we would pass this really exclusive Butcher shop. My dad took it as a chance to explain to me what made those steaks so nice, and we both got pretty hungry watching hunks of dried beef that was very expensive, far too much for us lol."

I had to throw that story in for the Trombone...he likes em though he won't admit it... So when I look at Max and think, "wow if this guy had taken boxing seriously!" Its kind of like my dad and I saying "wow if we could get one of those haunches from Lobells home to mom...."

But alas, I don't have the desire for a great steak I once had, we never did get meat from Lobells, and I couldn't eat half of one now...and Max? well a great guy he was, very talented but never developed enough to reach his potential.

I love the stories. And I love when you talk Boxing. But don't conflate those facts because here's what I hate:

when you join the clowns on this forum and begin perpetuating OTHER peoples' stories about Boxing. I joke to get at your goat, but when you act like ******NYC or Marchanego or Batts, it pisses me off.

Braddock beat the snot out of Schmeling?
When was that? During that stretch when he also KO'd Sullivan, Ali and Lennox Lewis?

If Patterson, Charles and Rocco can stop Moore. And Moxie can maintain a career after peltings from Baer and Louis (which he won). Moore's got a snowballs chance in Hell.

I only give Marciano and Liston a chance at beating Max because of styles. Rocky is stifling. Liston keeps his distance, avoiding traps. But Max is the best talent of the three, so despite any disadvantages he might face, I'm not confident picking those two against him. Everyone else is hopeless.