Ten Most Important Fighters

[Willie Pep 229]

The ten most important fighters; based on their impact on the game. (Not a list for boxing fans.)

1. Jack Dempsey
2. Joe Louis
3. Muhammad Ali
4. John L. Sullivan
5. James J. Corbett
7. Jack Johnson
7. Sugar Ray Leonard
8. Mike Tyson
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Rocky Marciano

A very short explanation:

1. Dempsey: A new explosive style created the first million dollar gate; ushered in the Golden Age of Sport.
2. Louis: Taught 'white society' to embrace the athletic prowess of the Black man.
3. Ali: The triumph of the individual over the system.
4. Sullivan: America's first sports hero; they legitimized the fight game around him.
5. Corbett: Learn the martial art of boxing or don't expect to participate.
6. Johnson: Made (for better or worst) prize fighting part of the national consciousness.
7. Leonard: Brought about economic parity for the little guys.
8. Tyson: There is no such thing as bad press.
9. Lewis: Taught America to embrace a new international domination of the game.
10. Marciano: The definitive white hope; for the television generation he kept white audiences interested in the game.

[JohnCastellanos]

Cool list bro

[Anthony342]

The ten most important fighters; based on their impact on the game. (Not a list for boxing fans.)

1. Jack Dempsey
2. Joe Louis
3. Muhammad Ali
4. John L. Sullivan
5. James J. Corbett
7. Jack Johnson
7. Sugar Ray Leonard
8. Mike Tyson
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Rocky Marciano

A very short explanation:

1. Dempsey: A new explosive style created the first million dollar gate; ushered in the Golden Age of Sport.
2. Louis: Taught 'white society' to embrace the athletic prowess of the Black man.
3. Ali: The triumph of the individual over the system.
4. Sullivan: America's first sports hero; they legitimized the fight game around him.
5. Corbett: Learn the martial art of boxing or don't expect to participate.
6. Johnson: Made (for better or worst) prize fighting part of the national consciousness.
7. Leonard: Brought about economic parity for the little guys.
8. Tyson: There is no such thing as bad press.
9. Lewis: Taught America to embrace a new international domination of the game.
10. Marciano: The definitive white hope; for the television generation he kept white audiences interested in the game.

Wouldn't Jack Johnson also be included for being the first black heavyweight champion?

[Willie Pep 229]

Wouldn't Jack Johnson also be included for being the first black heavyweight champion?

I see your point but . . .

I feel he made a mess out of being the first Black HW Champion; I think he set the fight game back 20 years, and with his behavior left a generation of Black fighters in the weeds.

Let me be clear I realize he was an unmitigated victim of racial hatred, but the man was also a ball busting prick who endlessly threw gasoline on the fires already engulfing him.

IMHO he was important because the racial strife that swirled around him made the HW Championship important, and importance it would maintain until the 1990s.

Before Johnson only the 'sport' really cared who won a prize fight, or even who was HW Champion. Johnson-Jeffries changed all that, making the HW Championship a national issue/event with everyone aware of it, and almost everyone having an opinion.

But of course this is a topic conducive only to opinion.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I don't know how Sullivan could be ranked anywhere other than first place.

Corbett and Dan Donnelly following just behind.

Tunney and Pep after that.

Then Ali and Tyson.

[Willie Pep 229]

I don't know how Sullivan could be ranked anywhere other than first place.

Corbett and Dan Donnelly following just behind.

Tunney and Pep after that.

Then Ali and Tyson.

Tell me about Dan Donnelly!

In regards to Sullivan being number one. I recognize the arguments for it, (all firsts hold the presumptive position,) but the timing wasn't yet right to make prize fighting the mega event it needed to be to insure its survival. Dempsey (aided by the Roaring Twenties) made prize fighting big business and the nay sayers were silenced.

After Dempsey boxing didn't have to apologize for existing, its survival was insured. Big money can do that.

I don't understand Tunney or Pep at all. This is not about boxing prowess, only how it changed the game.

Tell me about Dan Donnelly, please!

[Rusty Tromboni]

Tell me about Dan Donnelly!

In regards to Sullivan being number one. I recognize the arguments for it, (all firsts hold the presumptive position,) but the timing wasn't yet right to make prize fighting the mega event it needed to be to insure its survival. Dempsey (aided by the Roaring Twenties) made prize fighting big business and the nay sayers were silenced.

After Dempsey boxing didn't have to apologize for existing, its survival was insured. Big money can do that.

I don't understand Tunney or Pep at all. This is not about boxing prowess, only how it changed the game.

Tell me about Dan Donnelly, please!

Donnelly was the first non-English champion. He was the first Irish Champion. He basically was the pre-Sullivan.

Everything you said about Dempsey is true of Sullivan... and more so. Sullivan was the first national sports star. He also was a national star - making it an American belt, not an English one. And he was a hero to the Irish people. So really, historically, he's a lot bigger than Dempsey. Also, he legitimized Boxing.

Tunney and Pep, along with Dempsey and Benny Leonard, changed Boxing even more than Corbett did.


Really, the world of Boxing can be divided into pre and post Willie Pep. That's why Gil Clancy called Pep the best ever. And every fighters whose fought since Pep has been trained to fight , in some way, like him. They've even changed Boxing to better accommodate less talented men to fight more like Willie Pep.

[The Old LefHook]

Marciano, Hafey, Webb, Lomachenko... the list goes on

[JAB5239]

I've done a thread similar to this. Here is my list.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=783842

10. Lennox Lewis-The first British heavyweight to hold the title and be known as a champion by the world and not just the Brits (see Frank Bruno).

9. Tommy Burns-Had the distinction of being the man to give up the heavyweight championship to the first black heavyweight champion in history and change the sport forever.

8. Max Schmeling-While nothing he did as champion stands out, his win and loss to Louis helped set and destroy a symbol of **** power.

7. Rocky Marciano-retired undefeated and was the last white American to be the undisputed champ. His name is synonymous with the heavyweight title.

6. John L. Sullivan-The first gloved champion and a certified star of his era. Everyone knew who the Boston string boy was.

5. Joe Louis-His win over Schmeling was a crushing defeat to **** propaganda and his patriotic devotion made him loved by blacks and whites alike during a turbulent time in the countries history.

4. Mike Tyson-His star burned so bright everybody in the world knew his name and stopped to watch him fight. They also stopped to watch his tragedies and turbulent life as if it were a car wreck.

3. Jack Johnson-The first black heavyweight champion and its most despised during his reign. So hated that white America actively pursued a "white hope" to wipe the golden smile of his face.

2. Muhammad Ali-Never had a fighter gone from being so disliked to so beloved. His stance on Vietnam brought a surreal amount of disdain for Ali. But his first loss to Frazier proved his conviction and courage so much the masses got behind him. He went from one end of the spectrum to the other and did it with flair not seen before or since.

1. Jack Dempsey-No fighter was ever so revered in their era. Never did so many people flock to see one man fight. So popular was Dempsey that his name alone conjures up images of the roaring twenties.

[Willie Pep 229]

Donnelly was the first non-English champion. He was the first Irish Champion. He basically was the pre-Sullivan.

Everything you said about Dempsey is true of Sullivan... and more so. Sullivan was the first national sports star. He also was a national star - making it an American belt, not an English one. And he was a hero to the Irish people. So really, historically, he's a lot bigger than Dempsey. Also, he legitimized Boxing.

Tunney and Pep, along with Dempsey and Benny Leonard, changed Boxing even more than Corbett did.


Really, the world of Boxing can be divided into pre and post Willie Pep. That's why Gil Clancy called Pep the best ever. And every fighters whose fought since Pep has been trained to fight , in some way, like him. They've even changed Boxing to better accommodate less talented men to fight more like Willie Pep.

Thanks!

I disagree on Corbett. He set the standard, the others 'only' perfected it.

The Pep argument on the other is food for thought, especially your point on how the game changed to champion his style of fighting. Good point.

At first I felt the game, in technique, only changed once, from brawling to boxing, (thus Corbett's importance) but maybe Pep (and that style) did in fact move the game to another level.

But again, Tunney and Leonard IMHO only mastered the standards set by Corbett.

Pep? Maybe he was more.

Thanks again for replying on Donnelly.