Jack Johnson backed out of signed contract to rematch Langford

[Willie Pep 229]

Looks like Jack to me. Here he is sparring with Joe Jeannette and Harry Wills as the ref.

Cool video thanks -- I didn't realize that Johnson made it past his 67th birthday, now I can see it. I thought he checked out much earlier. No wonder he rolled the car, he had old man reflexes by then.

[travestyny]

Cool video thanks -- I didn't realize that Johnson made it past his 67th birthday, now I can see it. I thought he checked out much earlier. No wonder he rolled the car, he had old man reflexes by then.

lol. I laughed tho that was wrong Don't think you meant it in a bad way however.

Yea, I was also surprised that he made it as long as he did. I thought he checked out well past his fighting days, but not to that age!


But Now that I think about it, I couldn't think of a better way for Jack Johnson to die. In old age, still speeding in a sports car. I feel almost certain Jack thinks that's far better a finale and final bow than passing away in his sleep.

[Willie Pep 229]

This is the picture BoxRec should have on its Jack Johnson record page, not the cliche one they use.

I suggested it to them but they ignored me, the bastards. LOL

But I'll bet a buck, if you could ask Jack Johnson, this would be the pic he would want, not that past-his-prime pic they use.

[GhostofDempsey]

You say that Jack Johnson wanted nothing to do with them but that has been proven false by travestyny.

He has given evidence that Johnson agreed to fights with them. Fights that on occasion fell through due to circumstances out of his control.

If you read some of the books I posted as sources, you'd know Johnson would price himself out of fights. He knew what sort of revenue fights would bring in and he would demand his $30K plus percentages knowing the fight wouldn't generate enough revenue to pay him. He also demanded that these fighters put up money they did not have knowing they wouldn't be able to come up with it in time.

As I've said before, those fights he posted were non-title exhibitions. Some were advertised prematurely before any true agreement had been reached. Jeannette's manager declared him the champion, insisting that Johnson retired when he did not. Both of you have ignored the resounding consensus among boxing historians, researchers, and writers that he denied them title shots.

[GhostofDempsey]

Was Johnson vs. Langford, Jeannette, McVea ever a realistic title fight?

Regardless of anyone's intentions were any of these fights ever actually economically feasible? Feasible defined as Johnson making a championship purse.

What venue, what crowd? -- With a weak box office for the film, to boot.

Beside the argument that it wasn't in Johnson's best interest, what about the interest of the promoters expected to front the costs and guarantees?

Who promotes this fight? Where?

Johnson was known for demanding money that he knew they could never raise for these fights. He conveniently priced himself out knowing they couldn't meet his demands. He insisted that no one would pay to watch two black fighters in a title fight, yet he fought Jim Johnson who was far less popular or respected that Jeannette, McVea, Langford.

[GhostofDempsey]

- -Of McVey passed in his 30s from the Flu, but Langford was largely destitute until a press fund raiser.

Wills owned an apt bldg that saw him thru the depression, and Jeannette actually thrived with his taxi service and gym.

Dempsey had to do an exhibition tour and get into promotions and officiating before doing well at his restaurant. Benny Leonard had to return for a 2nd tour in boxing.

Jj semi destitute for a while but was always good for an exhibition and seems to have been driving a fine car at speed when he met his end.

Johnson was kind enough to pay for all of McVea's funeral expenses and debt he left behind.

As the story goes, he was denied service at a white's only diner. He angrily sped off and crashed into a utility pole that killed him. The racism he battled all of his life ultimately killed him in a roundabout way.

[travestyny]

Johnson was known for demanding money that he knew they could never raise for these fights. He conveniently priced himself out knowing they couldn't meet his demands. He insisted that no one would pay to watch two black fighters in a title fight, yet he fought Jim Johnson who was far less popular or respected that Jeannette, McVea, Langford.

1. If he fought Jim Johnson, then how are your historians right that he drew the color line. Wouldn't that be factually false, making their account of matters unreliable?

2. If he priced himself out against Jeannette, why was the fight signed, sealed, and delivered until the commission scrapped it.

3. It's odd that you want us to believe historians but not the fighters, managers, and promoters who said the Johnson Jeannette fight would be for the championship. You need to do your own research. What proof do you have that it wasn't for the title. Your only proof was that it was an exhibition, but I've already proven that exhibitions in NY could be for the title.

So, just a simple question. What is your proof that he didn't accept vs. Jeannette for the title? Can you post your source? I've posted many.

[GhostofDempsey]

1. If he fought Jim Johnson, then how are your historians right that he drew the color line. Wouldn't that be factually false, making their account of matters unreliable?

2. If he priced himself out against Jeannette, why was the fight signed, sealed, and delivered until the commission scrapped it.

3. It's odd that you want us to believe historians but not the fighters, managers, and promoters who said the Johnson Jeannette fight would be for the championship. You need to do your own research. What proof do you have that it wasn't for the title. Your only proof was that it was an exhibition, but I've already proven that exhibitions in NY could be for the title.

So, just a simple question. What is your proof that he didn't accept vs. Jeannette for the title? Can you post your source? I've posted many.

It's odd that you don't believe the fighters, managers and promoters who insist Johnson never gave them a title shot. It's in the history books. Your need to be proven right is supersedes the evidence that has been provided to you.

Thanks, but I'll rely upon thoroughly researched books by the historians, scholars, researchers who have provided ample evidence that Johnson denied title shots to Langford, Jeannette, and McVea.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Cool video thanks -- I didn't realize that Johnson made it past his 67th birthday, now I can see it. I thought he checked out much earlier. No wonder he rolled the car, he had old man reflexes by then.

It's funny how they shamelessly mentioned Tommy Burns being no challenge for Johnson, without stating the obvious... he was half Johnson's size.

[GhostofDempsey]

It's funny how they shamelessly mentioned Tommy Burns being no challenge for Johnson, without stating the obvious... he was half Johnson's size.

As was most of his best wins. His best wins were against middleweight sized fighters or fighters who were still inexperienced. When he met bigger men is what difficult for him to gain an advantage using his style of clinching when opponents got inside--while yanking down on opponents arm/shoulder, fighting from the outside, tossing them around and and leaning his weight on them.