Jack Johnson backed out of signed contract to rematch Langford

[elfag]

lol Johnson ducked a rematch with a former lightweight and couldnt even stop him over 15 the first go around.

johnson extremely overrated, he gets destroyed by any champion dempsey and later, different times when youre heavyweight champ cant even stop a middleweight and former lightweight.

[Willie Pep 229]

Was Johnson vs. Langford, Jeannette, McVea ever a realistic title fight?

Regardless of anyone's intentions were any of these fights ever actually economically feasible? Feasible defined as Johnson making a championship purse.

What venue, what crowd? -- With a weak box office for the film, to boot.

Beside the argument that it wasn't in Johnson's best interest, what about the interest of the promoters expected to front the costs and guarantees?

Who promotes this fight? Where?

[QueensburyRules]

Was Johnson vs. Langford, Jeannette, McVea ever a realistic title fight?

Regardless of anyone's intentions were any of these fights ever actually economically feasible? Feasible defined as Johnson making a championship purse.

What venue, what crowd? -- With a weak box office for the film, to boot.

Beside the argument that it wasn't in Johnson's best interest, what about the interest of the promoters expected to front the costs and guarantees?

Who promotes this fight? Where?

- -JJ and and any of his 3 black peers would make more in New Mexico than he made against Flynn.

Langford and Jeannette were making enough money to secure costly passage overseas for mucho lucre as American exotics.

[Willie Pep 229]

- -JJ and and any of his 3 black peers would make more in New Mexico than he made against Flynn.

Langford and Jeannette were making enough money to secure costly passage overseas for mucho lucre as American exotics.

. . . and Jeannette's manger also claimed Joe was living well in beautiful New Jersey.

But 'American exotics' is a good phrase to use; American Blacks often found France considerably more welcoming then the States, e.g Josephine Baker, Eartha Kitt, James Baldwin.

I am not sure those French paydays were available in the States. Maybe they were.

I have no problem seeing a Johnson-Jeannette fight in Paris. Just can't see it happening in Peoria.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Of McVey passed in his 30s from the Flu, but Langford was largely destitute until a press fund raiser.

Wills owned an apt bldg that saw him thru the depression, and Jeannette actually thrived with his taxi service and gym.

Dempsey had to do an exhibition tour and get into promotions and officiating before doing well at his restaurant. Benny Leonard had to return for a 2nd tour in boxing.

Jj semi destitute for a while but was always good for an exhibition and seems to have been driving a fine car at speed when he met his end.

[Willie Pep 229]

- -Of McVey passed in his 30s from the Flu, but Langford was largely destitute until a press fund raiser.

Wills owned an apt bldg that saw him thru the depression, and Jeannette actually thrived with his taxi service and gym.

Dempsey had to do an exhibition tour and get into promotions and officiating before doing well at his restaurant. Benny Leonard had to return for a 2nd tour in boxing.

Jj semi destitute for a while but was always good for an exhibition and seems to have been driving a fine car at speed when he met his end.

Do you think there is any truth to the story that Henry Ford would give Jack Johnson a free, top end performing Ford knowing he would get caught speeding in it, thus advertising the power of Ford cars?

[QueensburyRules]

Do you think there is any truth to the story that Henry Ford would give Jack Johnson a free, top end performing Ford knowing he would get caught speeding in it, thus advertising the power of Ford cars?

- -Match made in heaven, so may be some truth to that though U the first to mention it to me. Johnson could be quite persuasive as his personality shows.

Did U know before Ford Inc Henry built a 1500 cube monstrosity to break the world speed record circa 1900?

He couldn't get it to run right and it scared him, so he sold it for a song to Barney Oldfield who was a bicycle champ who had never driven a car.

Somehow Barney got it running and the rest is history, of course including the time he whooped JJ after a challenge.

Them was da days!

[Willie Pep 229]

- -Match made in heaven, so may be some truth to that though U the first to mention it to me. Johnson could be quite persuasive as his personality shows.

Did U know before Ford Inc Henry built a 1500 cube monstrosity to break the world speed record circa 1900?

He couldn't get it to run right and it scared him, so he sold it for a song to Barney Oldfield who was a bicycle champ who had never driven a car.

Somehow Barney got it running and the rest is history, of course including the time he whooped JJ after a challenge.

Them was da days!

I looked up Oldfield. Interesting story.

Went looking for confirmation on the Ford 'free car' story but found nothing but secondary source web pages repeating it as an urban legend. Of no use, they might as well have been written by me.

I did run across two interesting photos. The first is Johnson-Flynn. Best publicity still I ever encountered of the fight, great image, but the gloves look oddly modern, almost as though they may have been photo shopped. Odd!

The second one is from a web page claiming this to be a photo of Jack Johnson. I am not sure. What do you think?

[travestyny]

I looked up Oldfield. Interesting story.

Went looking for confirmation on the Ford 'free car' story but found nothing but secondary source web pages repeating it as an urban legend. Of no use, they might as well have been written by me.

I did run across two interesting photos. The first is Johnson-Flynn. Best publicity still I ever encountered of the fight, great image, but the gloves look oddly modern, almost as though they may have been photo shopped. Odd!

The second one is from a web page claiming this to be a photo of Jack Johnson. I am not sure. What do you think?

Looks like Jack to me. Here he is sparring with Joe Jeannette and Harry Wills as the ref.

[travestyny]

You still going? Thought you were done? All you're doing is posting more obscure articles. You've ignored every single reference I've posted, and you now think you are more qualified than historians and scholars to speak on the subject of whether or not Johnson denied title shots to the black fighters I named. There is more proof out there that he did draw that line, than whatever you have attempted to prove.



Stop being obtuse. You know he fought Langford when he was young and 40 pounds lighter. You know that he fought McVea when he had less than 10 fights and was also young. You also know the same to be true of Jeannette. Once they gained experience and size he wanted nothing to do with them. This has been proven ad nauseum. You and Travesty can pretend that it didn't happen, and you can scare up all of the obscure articles you can find that speak of exhibitions or alleged title fights that Jeannette's manager claimed as such, but it didn't happen. Boxing historians and scholars have collectively agreed on this, which I've posted several times now.

My position hasn't changed. Langford was screwed out of his title shot, and he spend the rest of his career chasing another one which he never got. I'm not sure why you are both quick to side with Johnson when there is mounting evidence that he avoided them in favor of smaller white opponents that were easier fights. Johnson himself admits this.

Bruh, it's time for YOU to stop.


I showed more than enough proof for anyone to know that he accepted a fight with Joe Jeannette for the championship. ShoulderRoll and I have both shown that he accepted fights with Langford and McVea.

You have already shown your bias. You went from ignoring my sources blatantly over and over, to finally acknowledging them when you thought they fit your agenda, and then you went with Jack Johnson was at fault because he should have known how the NY commission wouldn't allow title bouts, then I proved they did allow title bouts and you claimed JJ should have known they wouldn't allow 2 blacks for the title (with no proof for that), then I proved that it was meant to be for the title and you turned to it's only one source, then I showed multiple sources and now you say don't trust any of them.

I asked you for proof that it wasn't for the title. You've come back with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

It's clear what happened here. Your bias against JJ has clouded your judgement.

So one last time. Any proof that it wasn't for the title? Post up all of your proof in a single post (it should fit easily) and I'll post up my info that it was for the title. That should help us clearly see whose argument is more compelling.

Agreed?


If you can't show proof, seems to me you have nothing to hang your hat on with your JJ color-line (sans one) theory.