Jack Johnson backed out of signed contract to rematch Langford

[travestyny]

Read my latest response above I am working why way there.

I PM you because I thought you misunderstood Bert Sugar's age and didn't want to embarrass you on the board, but you just called me out for embarrassment, why would you do that? Feel like I just took a knife in the back.

I didn't say anything about what we discussed, and I wouldn't.

But why would I be embarrassed about Bert Sugar's age? That makes no sense. I already posted here that he was born circa 1936.

[travestyny]

I'm not trying to lure you into some 2 on 1 thing, which is ridiculous in and of itself. Seems paranoid you think posters are now colluding against you. I haven not shared any DM's with Willie. This isn't a street fight, if you feel you need back up, get better sources. Besides, you already had Shoulderroll backing you with the same tired sources.

It was a joke and not meant for you. No I don't think you were sending each other DM's. I was asking if the other guy was thinking that, half jokingly and half seriously. It had nothing to do with you.

I removed your boy Chollo from ignore back in December, but he had me on ignore, so I added him back, likely for the best. I have no desire to discuss anything with a guy who drags every single thread into some race-related mudslinging. I gave him opportunities in the past and he resorts to the same nonsense. He recently had several posts and threads deleted for his race-baiting and antisemitism. He can't help himself.

Johnson announced his "retirement" on several occasions, but never formally retired. In order for him to have retired he would have had to surrender his title. In fact, his first retirement announcement in 1911, he insisted he would put together a tournament where the most deserving opponents would fight in an eliminator for his championship. It never happened because he wasn't truly retired.

McKetrick had chased Johnson all over Europe trying to get a fight with him and Moran. He used the newspapers over there in the same fashion in order to bait Johnson into taking the fight. Same tactics he tried with Jeannette.

So you're saying he did announce his retirement in 1912, right at the point where McKetrick tried to claim the title, right?

So you were wrong that it never happened, right?


It's like he can't even retire now without your permission Why don't you take us through the proper process for retiring in 1912. It would be an interesting read honestly.

[travestyny]

There was no deflection. Anyone can see that. You are trying to throw up smokescreens. You've been doing it for over 25 pages now.

Ah, so now the newspaper article was a typo, but only when it suits your position? Look at the article, it reads as 5,000 pounds. So first 3,000 pounds was ridiculous in 1909, then 5,000 was ridiculous in 1914, but now it's a typo. I thought all newspaper references were gospel? I guess only when it was McKetrick feeding them to the press.

I don't think you are following very well.


Even if it's not a typo, 5000 pounds was not the mark. And I've already shown you that it was a typo.

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in a typo and making up entire stories and quotations, which is what you're saying happened. And I'm not saying that can't happen. But that's why you use multiple sources.

3000 pounds was the offer.

Do you know how many articles I've listed from different sources about Jeannette vs. Johnson being for the championship. I asked YOU to find one that opposes it. I'm still waiting.

[travestyny]

If Johnson fights Jeannette, retired or not retired that fight would have been considered for the title, so who cares what McKetrick claimed or not?

This here!


This is how a normal person would see it. It just exposes that Ghostof wants to look at it ****-eyed to fit an agenda. Thank you for at least being real.

This is the second time that a poster has come in and got what I been trying to say to him in over a billion pages in just 2 posts.

[GhostofDempsey]

I don't think you are following very well.


Even if it's not a typo, 5000 pounds was not the mark. And I've already shown you that it was a typo.

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in a typo and making up entire stories and quotations, which is what you're saying happened. And I'm not saying that can't happen. But that's why you use multiple sources.

3000 pounds was the offer.

Do you know how many articles I've listed from different sources about Jeannette vs. Johnson being for the championship. I asked YOU to find one that opposes it. I'm still waiting.

3,000 in 1909! 5,000 offered in 1914.

[GhostofDempsey]

It was a joke and not meant for you. No I don't think you were sending each other DM's. I was asking if the other guy was thinking that, half jokingly and half seriously. It had nothing to do with you.






So you're saying he did announce his retirement in 1912, right at the point where McKetrick tried to claim the title, right?

So you were wrong that it never happened, right?


It's like he can't even retire now without your permission Why don't you take us through the proper process for retiring in 1912. It would be an interesting read honestly.

I'm saying Johnson did these half-baked retirement announcements. The one I referred to was in October of 1911 with a proposed tournament. Once in an effort to avoid McVea. Other times because he was making good money in show business. But, he NEVER OFFICIALLY RETIRED. McKetrick seized that as the opportunist that he was...the title was always Johnson's, never Jeannette's, you don't seem to comprehend that.

[travestyny]

3,000 in 1909! 5,000 offered in 1914.

Bruh. It says the date right there.

Says the same amount, 3,000, in Unforgivable Blackness I believe.

There's no reason for me to even argue this point and drag out multiple sources. His price was 6000 pounds and he made that clear. In fact, he made it clear in the statement about how the offer was ridiculous.

Oh what the hell. Here it is.

I know how you like the historians, so let's see if that moves you.

[travestyny]

I'm saying Johnson did these half-baked retirement announcements. The one I referred to was in October of 1911 with a proposed tournament. Once in an effort to avoid McVea. Other times because he was making good money in show business. But, he NEVER OFFICIALLY RETIRED. McKetrick seized that as the opportunist that he was...the title was always Johnson's, never Jeannette's, you don't seem to comprehend that.

Dude. No one thought Jeannette was really the champion. I don't know what you are accusing me of.

What is an official retirement in 1912? What is the process?

[GhostofDempsey]

Bruh. It says the date right there.

Says the same amount, 3,000, in Unforgivable Blackness I believe.

There's no reason for me to even argue this point and drag out multiple sources. His price was 6000 pounds and he made that clear. In fact, he made it clear in the statement about how the offer was ridiculous.

Oh what the hell. Here it is.

I know how you like the historians, so let's see if that moves you.

I provided a link to the article. Call it a typo if you like. You're cherry-picking news articles now.

Dude. No one thought Jeannette was really the champion. I don't know what you are accusing me of.

What is an official retirement in 1912? What is the process?

Really, because McKetrick sure did, he even went so far as to claim Jeannette was the champion. Back then, people believed what was in print. He flat out lied in order to build interest in the fight.

Did Johnson's title ever go up for grabs upon his "retirement"? Or was he still the champion?

[travestyny]

I provided a link to the article. Call it a typo if you like. You're cherry-picking news articles now.

Dude, then just say it was 5,000 if it tickles your fancy. We know his price was 6000.

I don't know why you are doing this. You are just trying so hard when all I've ever said here is that he stated his price, which was $30,000, and it is on record that he had agreed to fight all of these guys at one point in time for around that price. You are trying to pull out all of these weirdo stops to deny it but the proof is there.

Really, because McKetrick sure did, he even went so far as to claim Jeannette was the champion. Back then, people believed what was in print. He flat out lied in order to build interest in the fight.

Bro. Do you think people are ******? So people believed Jeannette was the champion back then? No...I'm willing to bet they didn't.

And why is this important? He wasn't "lying." What he was saying is, OK, you retired. My guy is the next logical guy. It's his....to which everyone else probably sighed and said, "Yea, right."

To me it's similar to staging a coup. You make an attempt, and fail. But we don't label it a lie. He tried to say the title was Jeannette's, and it was probably ignored.

I don't know what that has to do with the proposed fight being for the title. It's this weird deflection by you that has gone nowhere. The title that was up for grabs obviously was Johnson's title.

Did Johnson's title ever go up for grabs upon his "retirement"? Or was he still the champion?

I don't think anyone knew what would happen. There was talk of a tournament to be held a few times.

He barely gave them any time to figure it out. He unretired in 2 weeks!

Again, what was the process for retiring? I just don't know what you mean by saying he wasn't officially retired. Who does he have to make it official with?