Harry Greb in 1919

[JAB5239]

Thanks for the breakdown.

Even if that's not the entirety of the story, it's hard to make a case for Greb as challenger for the belt.

Again, it would have been one of history's greatest fights. But it sounds more like a "Super Fight" than a legitimate title defense.

Than why was Jack fighting guys Greb had already destroyed?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Than why was Jack fighting guys Greb had already destroyed?

What do you mean?

[QueensburyRules]

Than why was Jack fighting guys Greb had already destroyed?

- -U regressed to noob?

Jack fought whoever Kearns and Rickard put in front of him.

Greb a fine record, but the press and people wanted Wills, so Jack went to Hollywood to make more$ than what Kearns trickled down to him while signing to fight Wills at least twice. The finances and racial politics didn't allow the fight.

When the political mood shifted, Rickard put together an eliminator tourney to fight Jack. Wills was invited but refused and then lost badly to Sharkey.

Ya musta fergot!

[JAB5239]

- -U regressed to noob?

Jack fought whoever Kearns and Rickard put in front of him.

Greb a fine record, but the press and people wanted Wills, so Jack went to Hollywood to make more$ than what Kearns trickled down to him while signing to fight Wills at least twice. The finances and racial politics didn't allow the fight.

When the political mood shifted, Rickard put together an eliminator tourney to fight Jack. Wills was invited but refused and then lost badly to Sharkey.

Ya musta fergot!

You must of forgot the contract that was given to Wills was rubbish. If I remember correctly, no date, venue or purse.

[QueensburyRules]

You must of forgot the contract that was given to Wills was rubbish. If I remember correctly, no date, venue or purse.

- -Musta fergot they signed 2 contracts, maybe 3.

The first Wills received his $50k guarantee, but Jacks bounced. Wills used his to buy an apt menu building that supported him in the depression whereas Benny Leonard and Jack had to go back to work.

U don't know Jack was not promoting back then? Gonna blame him for the depression too?

[JAB5239]

- -Musta fergot they signed 2 contracts, maybe 3.

The first Wills received his $50k guarantee, but Jacks bounced. Wills used his to buy an apt menu building that supported him in the depression whereas Benny Leonard and Jack had to go back to work.

U don't know Jack was not promoting back then? Gonna blame him for the depression too?

Ya musta forgot, they never fought even though white Americans were calling for it in such a divided time.

[Deontaytheking]

Interesting read, thanks for sharing this.

[Willie Pep 229]

- -Musta fergot they signed 2 contracts, maybe 3.

The first Wills received his $50k guarantee, but Jacks bounced. Wills used his to buy an apt menu building that supported him in the depression whereas Benny Leonard and Jack had to go back to work.

U don't know Jack was not promoting back then? Gonna blame him for the depression too?

I know of one contract singed in '26 that Dempsey walked away from; the promoter Floyd Fitzsimmons (from Dempsey's earlier title defense against Billy Miske) was unable to come up with the 60K front money he promised. The contract itself promised Dempsey 800,000 for a Wills fight in Chicago, but when Fitz couldn't come up with he 60k training expenses he promised, Dempsey took a train back east and signed with Rickard to fight Tunney.

In 1932 an athletic club out of Chicago (likely a front for mobsters) whom Fitz had sold the useless contract to, sued Dempsey for breach of contract. The jury found that Dempsey did indeed break the contract but the judge only awarded the AC $1,200 for some legal expenses.

The judge laughed at the notion of a $800,000 suit because the AC never showed any ability to come even close to meeting its $800,000 guarantee. In fact all Dempsey ever got out of Fitz or the Chicago AC was a check for $20.

I have never heard of Wills receiving a 50K buy off. Fitzsimmons actually got Dempsey to accept a $20 check to seal the contract (which Dempsey foolishly accepted thus causing the jury to conclude he broke the contract.) so I find it hard to believe they gave Wills 50K.

Tex Rickard (who blocked Wills from getting a title shot at Dempsey) actually liked Harry Wills and in 1924 promoted Wills-Firpo in New Jersey. That night Wills earned $124,00.

It may have been from this fight that Wills bought the apartment building in Phily, because I agree that is where Wills ended up. Considering how many different people owned a piece of Harry Wills (including Tammany Hall politicians ) and then add in his taxes, Wills getting 50k out of the 124K actually sounds correct.

But I have never heard of anyone paying Harry Wills 'step-aside' money of any kind. I don't think that existed back then. But maybe.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I know of one contract singed in '26 that Dempsey walked away from; the promoter Floyd Fitzsimmons (from Dempsey's earlier title defense against Billy Miske) was unable to come up with the 60K front money he promised. The contract itself promised Dempsey 800,000 for a Wills fight in Chicago, but when Fitz couldn't come up with he 60k training expenses he promised, Dempsey took a train back east and signed with Rickard to fight Tunney.

In 1932 an athletic club out of Chicago (likely a front for mobsters) whom Fitz had sold the useless contract to, sued Dempsey for breach of contract. The jury found that Dempsey did indeed break the contract but the judge only awarded the AC $1,200 for some legal expenses.

The judge laughed at the notion of a $800,000 suit because the AC never showed any ability to come even close to meeting its $800,000 guarantee. In fact all Dempsey ever got out of Fitz or the Chicago AC was a check for $20.

I have never heard of Wills receiving a 50K buy off. Fitzsimmons actually got Dempsey to accept a $20 check to seal the contract (which Dempsey foolishly accepted thus causing the jury to conclude he broke the contract.) so I find it hard to believe they gave Wills 50K.

Tex Rickard (who blocked Wills from getting a title shot at Dempsey) actually liked Harry Wills and in 1924 promoted Wills-Firpo in New Jersey. That night Wills earned $124,00.

It may have been from this fight that Wills bought the apartment building in Phily, because I agree that is were Wills ended up. Considering how many different people owned a piece of Harry Wills (including Tammany Hall politicians ) and then add in his taxes, Wills getting 50k out of the 124K actually sounds correct.

But I have never heard of anyone paying Harry Wills 'step-aside' money of any kind. I don't think that existed back then. But maybe.

Great insight!

We had an African Lioness roaming around these parts not too long ago and her shtick was that White champs avoided deserving Black challengers. But she could never provide evidence.

[billeau2]

- -Musta fergot they signed 2 contracts, maybe 3.

The first Wills received his $50k guarantee, but Jacks bounced. Wills used his to buy an apt menu building that supported him in the depression whereas Benny Leonard and Jack had to go back to work.

U don't know Jack was not promoting back then? Gonna blame him for the depression too?

Im going to throw my hat in the ring on this issue: You can tell it is my hat, as it has the big pointy spot at the top...

This issue is complicated and probably has elements of all the different hypotheticals. But fair play to QueenB for bringing up the issue of Jack's decisions. It has become a little easy to give Wills the benefit of the doubt at all times.

1) The issues about promotion, Kearns, the confusion of the contracts, that QueenB brings up are valid issues. Jack was thrown into this as much as Wills.

2) Wills has become more and more an Eagle...the man was, to be clear, never a pigeon...Wills was by all accounts decent, an excellent fighter, yada yada... But skill wise? He was not a juggernaught to be avoided out of cold fear. He was not really much of a threat to Jack by most contemporary accounts.

3) Jack was a certain kind of person, as we all are. He did not want to take on management for his career and let others do so often enough. Keeping this in mind: we would not call Tim Witherspoon a snake because of management decisions that King enforced while managing him...Most notably putting his
r e t a r d e d son down for payola as witherspoon's supposed "manager."

None of this is to say anything bad about "The Black Panther" who was skilled, and decent...But frankly many of us feel he would not have been much for Dempsey to handle.