Intimidation. Sonny Liston.

[Willie Pep 229]

I'm sure some fighters do get intimidated but it's hard to see why. I mean being a pro-fighter you know you could lose any fight. Just what is this guy standing opposite going to do to you?. The worst he can do is knock you out and any decent fighter - scary aura or not - could do that

Also you mentioned Joshua and Wilder. I don't see those guys been scared at all so far in their career. It's just people seeing what they want to see

People die in boxing rings, not just get KOed. There is much to fear.

[GhostofDempsey]

The epitome of intimidation was Spinks vs. Tyson. Spinks lost the fight before the fight even started. The look on his face, the fear in his eyes before the fight even began--he was scared out of his mind.

[billeau2]

Yeah, in terms of natural talent and sheer will-power, he was one of the best we've seen.

If he could've been lined-up with a Gore or Beristain type trainer to polish him up he might've really become one of the great ever. Look at what Arcel did with Duran.

Of course, what really ended Ingo's career was Ingo. He accomplished what he'd set out to do. Once he achieved that he recognized he didn't want to commit what was required to remain there, so he quit. Pretty admirable actually.

Just look at a less talented but more committed guy like Charles and you see how much differently their lives transpired. Who's fate would you want for you or your kids?

Agreed. Ingo achieved "balance." Quite an accomplishment in deed. Its funny because another famous Swede kind if had a similar path: Tor. You know, Tor from the Ed Wood movies? The man actually had the biggest selling halloween mask until Mike Myers of Halloween (the movie) eclipsed sales of the Tor mask with the hocky mask.

Tor was a legit wrestler. George the animal steele played him in the Ed Wood movie (I loved that movie)...Steele is a very intelligent guy and did a **** up job in the movie. Tor by all accounts was a large, lovable Swede! No pretensions to speak of. Lived a good life and was well respected. I see certain parallels for sure.

[billeau2]

Great insight. But that sounds exactly like what Don King and Tyson's wife would've said.

Maturity is a separate thing from intelligence. As human beings whether we know it, or not, our lives depend on it, because it is the very keystone on which social cohension weighs upon. We need it because our clock runnith in two directions! Speaking socially a man progresses after 30, when the brain fully forms all the little stuff that makes ethical processing possible. Before that our brains are not fully capable of making these choices... all the different areas are not developed enough to truly understand choice and consequence.

Yet our biology speaks to a different time frame entirely. Women are often ready to bare children at 13, and our physical prime is before... So what does maturity do? it allows younger individuals to act in a manner where they can try to make up for a lack of true insight, regarding actions in the community.

Mike never had matured. I saw this a lot, still do. Young men who cannot control themselves. King and Givens are unapologetic opportunists. They are leeches that know where to insert themselves. King is actually a genius. I would encourage anyone to read up on Cleveland in the 50's. Talk about a dangerous place to have a thriving numbers racquet!! King managed to walk a line, and even avoid the big boys when they were coming for him...He alone walked out of bomb city in tact.

No one should ever underestimate a criminal mastermind like King because they came to the conclusion that it is so much easier cheating, and lying and exploiting on the right side of the law. All the great ones eventually come to this conclusion.

My point is Mike Tyson was a kid, in every which way. A smart kid being used and exploited by all... And who cares what anyone says... the point is, when he ran into seasoned grifters like Givens, and a criminal mastermind like King, who can play the race card for a minute, before declaring himself a staunch conservative, an advocate for the kind of "White Man" that the late **** Gregory told us was the truly evil individuals...Tyson never has a chance. Mike was acting out of anger after all.

Its like all the tribes in America when the Spaniards came who wanted to give the Aztecs a black eye. You think they considered for a minute that they were dealing with a worse crisis? This capitulation to the forces of Spain was collective immaturity with a hefty price tag indeed!

[Rusty Tromboni]

Maturity is a separate thing from intelligence. As human beings whether we know it, or not, our lives depend on it, because it is the very keystone on which social cohension weighs upon. We need it because our clock runnith in two directions! Speaking socially a man progresses after 30, when the brain fully forms all the little stuff that makes ethical processing possible. Before that our brains are not fully capable of making these choices... all the different areas are not developed enough to truly understand choice and consequence.

Yet our biology speaks to a different time frame entirely. Women are often ready to bare children at 13, and our physical prime is before... So what does maturity do? it allows younger individuals to act in a manner where they can try to make up for a lack of true insight, regarding actions in the community.

Mike never had matured. I saw this a lot, still do. Young men who cannot control themselves. King and Givens are unapologetic opportunists. They are leeches that know where to insert themselves. King is actually a genius. I would encourage anyone to read up on Cleveland in the 50's. Talk about a dangerous place to have a thriving numbers racquet!! King managed to walk a line, and even avoid the big boys when they were coming for him...He alone walked out of bomb city in tact.

No one should ever underestimate a criminal mastermind like King because they came to the conclusion that it is so much easier cheating, and lying and exploiting on the right side of the law. All the great ones eventually come to this conclusion.

My point is Mike Tyson was a kid, in every which way. A smart kid being used and exploited by all... And who cares what anyone says... the point is, when he ran into seasoned grifters like Givens, and a criminal mastermind like King, who can play the race card for a minute, before declaring himself a staunch conservative, an advocate for the kind of "White Man" that the late **** Gregory told us was the truly evil individuals...Tyson never has a chance. Mike was acting out of anger after all.

Its like all the tribes in America when the Spaniards came who wanted to give the Aztecs a black eye. You think they considered for a minute that they were dealing with a worse crisis? This capitulation to the forces of Spain was collective immaturity with a hefty price tag indeed!

I thought I'd hate finance. I only did it for the money.

Turns out I LOVE finance. Plenty of time to read your wonderful posts while pretending to review reports.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Agreed. Ingo achieved "balance." Quite an accomplishment in deed. Its funny because another famous Swede kind if had a similar path: Tor. You know, Tor from the Ed Wood movies? The man actually had the biggest selling halloween mask until Mike Myers of Halloween (the movie) eclipsed sales of the Tor mask with the hocky mask.

Tor was a legit wrestler. George the animal steele played him in the Ed Wood movie (I loved that movie)...Steele is a very intelligent guy and did a **** up job in the movie. Tor by all accounts was a large, lovable Swede! No pretensions to speak of. Lived a good life and was well respected. I see certain parallels for sure.

Good stuff.

Ingo was definitely a star for his people.


Of course he was also symptomatic of the deluge of talent Boxing suffered after WWII. The sport nearly died.

[Roberto Vasquez]

People die in boxing rings, not just get KOed. There is much to fear.

I get that - but why be scared of a boxer just because he has a a scary-aura about him? Any boxer can KO you and kill you. It could be the friendly boxer who kills you

[billeau2]

I thought I'd hate finance. I only did it for the money.

Turns out I LOVE finance. Plenty of time to read your wonderful posts while pretending to review reports.

LOL. I think we have elements that are similar Rusty. I went to school, all the way up to graduate work for a year at the University of Toronto, before my first boy was born. I did not want to leave my wife to raise a kid in NYC and had to halt my Doctorate. It was worth it to watch that squirt learning to walk on the great walk in Central Park. Magical days really...

Well, cut to San Francisco, Cade is around 4 years old, or so... We get a call that my mother in law passed. Spooky coincidence? Cade had never wet the bed, around the time of her death, (we traced back from the phone call) he lets out a total stream soaking the bed and waking us up. Interesting to me...

So suddenly? I know a lot about a lot of things, martial arts, philosophy...But NOTHING about finances, Real estate, etc. Now I have a brother in law who is a chronic schizophrenic, and an estate of about 6 ramshackles in Louisiana, and around a million bucks to run. This money has to be able to sustain my brother in law (it did, he passed about 5 years ago) and, has to be sustainable (my condition).

so I throw myself into finance, real estate...get my Broker's license and appraising license for California (passed the hardest appraisal test in the nation, first time!), read up on all the different stock market theories, etc.

Heres my point: I became a major contrarian. Like I would imagine you might lol. It wasn't by design... I didn't start out trying to be so... But when I read things and analyzed them carefully I found:

1) Taxes are the biggest consideration and are chronically overlooked.
2) banks are garbage and so is the theory that saving money is productive. Why do Mexican and Chinese immigrants have the common sense to know a business, like a restaurant will grow and provide, when Americans are brainwashed into giving banks their money (saving).
3) Monetized life insurance may be a scam to some, but a properly structured contract creates tax free income, allowed to grow indefinitely. Yet every talking head eschews these contracts.

It all has to do with thinking for oneself. I admire that you do so. You come on strong at times, but the impulse...Its a valuable one.

[billeau2]

Good stuff.

Ingo was definitely a star for his people.


Of course he was also symptomatic of the deluge of talent Boxing suffered after WWII. The sport nearly died.

World wars tend to do that.

[Willie Pep 229]

I get that - but why be scared of a boxer just because he has a a scary-aura about him? Any boxer can KO you and kill you. It could be the friendly boxer who kills you

Got it - misunderstood your quote. Yes, Mancini was for all intent and purpose a nice guy.

Being scare to enter the ring is sensible, be afraid of a stare down, I agree, is pointless. Stare downs are meaningless