Roberto Duran vs. Henry Armstrong

[ron davis]

Please tell me more about Armstrong avoiding Freddie Miller,
this is the first I've heard of it. Jack Dempsey in 1940 said,
"They don't want Joe Louis or Armstrong to lose, selecting their opponents not by merit.

There is an old saying, "When you're the champion, you don't fight fighters that can beat you." They get the duke.

More to come.

[QueensburyRules]

Ward's legacy. Fine wine needs time to mature in the cellar.

- -Son of Goofus the turd in a punchbowl who don't need more maturity in the cellar.

[billeau2]

- -Son of Goofus the turd in a punchbowl who don't need more maturity in the cellar.

Not a Ward fan? lol. Ward is one of my favorites.

[QueensburyRules]

Not a Ward fan? lol. Ward is one of my favorites.

- -What do you think his average foul rate is per title bout, ie butts, hitting on the break, low blows, elbows is?

More than a dozen, and how many times the ref pull his opponent off per fight?

Half dozen.

[billeau2]

- -What do you think his average foul rate is per title bout, ie butts, hitting on the break, low blows, elbows is?

More than a dozen, and how many times the ref pull his opponent off per fight?

Half dozen.

ever notice that the few guys who fight inside...Hopkins, Ward among them, in this modern era are always characterized as dirty fighters? I also do not recall Ward being criticised for hitting on the break. But yeah fighting inside is more of a mish mash, elbows do get used at times...Also Southpaws butt heads because of the mechanics of matching up with a righty, it is common knowledge that this happens when fighting for foot position, among other struggles for position.

Regarding the last Kovalev fight, He did hit low, but if you watch that round there are some things that stand out:

1) Ward hit Kovalev with a solid shot that really sapped the Russian. This is what started the end for Kovalev.

2) Kovalev was turning away, and it became a weird angle...Not all the body shots were low, but yes in that mix a few did come down below the belt.

Trinidad and Duran among others hit low occasionally, it does happen.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Kov complained to the re from 1st rd>>>

Open season and Kov not critically hurt. Weeks knew he was looking bad and pulled the plug.

Son of goofus a major league sissy the American public never took to.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Please tell me more about Armstrong avoiding Freddie Miller,
this is the first I've heard of it.

It's is imprecise to say "duck". But that pretty much qualifies his decision to drop down to Featherweight to fight for the championship only after Miller's prestigious, ATG career was frozen in the ground.

It's true Armstrong was once a Featherweight. But he wasn't a particularly notable one. And he only fought for the Featherweight belt several years after he had abandoned the division! Against, Petey Sarron, no less.

I am not trying to smear Sarron, but beating him was a lot like beating Charles or one the Spinks brothers. He deserves credit for beating a legend, but the legend deserves the acknowledgement that his best days were far behind him.

Sarron actually had a painfully protracted series with Miller, only finally prevailing once Father Time lent his support. If Armstrong were so great, why didn't he pounce sooner, when Miller's first showed signs of decline?

Al Jolson managed Armstrong. Jolson was a great talent, who realized marketing mattered more than talent. I am not saying he fully navigated Armstrong's career trajectory. But it would really make sense that a guy who pioneered "famous for being famous" and understood the business of showbusiness would author Armstrong's 3 Division championship reign, and gaudy title defenses.

this is the first I've heard of it. Jack Dempsey in 1940 said,
"They don't want Joe Louis or Armstrong to lose, selecting their opponents not by merit.

Jack was a wise sage.

He tended to over praise people, but a lot of what he spoke were maxims.


Anyone who consults Armstrong and Louis' respective records will find their contenders appalling.

[Rusty Tromboni]

so did I rusty , I had an old pair of boxing gloves given to me by ex British champion and they were kept in the meter cupboard under the stairs and my brother and me use to grab the gloves any chance we could....I was 7 and my brother was nearly 11..he use to lay into me that’s for sure , but I never gave in and gradually I became the boss that’s for sure..lol
Going back to this guy this is the same guy that lauds after Mayweather even though compared to Armstrong he has a short resume....but ask him if he thinks Mayweather rates higher than hank...then your hear the hypocrisy when he says Mayweather.
I’ve always ranked fighters in the eye test at the end of the day and loma looks just as good as anybody I have seen.
I’m not an old school fan and I’m not a new school fan I judge it as I see it and if I see greatness it matters not to me how many cans they have faced to pad 100 plus record.
80% of a 150 fight career are with facing complete cans who have no business being in the ring in the 1st place.
So bloated records no thanks

Older brothers are great for character building!

[ron davis]

Rusty,

Armstrong didn't duck Freddie Miller, because he thought he would lose, it's because the gate wouldn't draw peanuts. If Freddie Miller's manager thought he could beat Armstrong, he would have offered Armstrong a $35,000 guarantee for a Title match. Eddie Mead, Al Jolson and George Raft owned Hank, including Mike Jacobs piece of the action, all would lovingly accept the dough and pay his medical bills. I am not degrading Freddie he was a good fighter. Cheers.

[billeau2]

- -Kov complained to the re from 1st rd>>>

Open season and Kov not critically hurt. Weeks knew he was looking bad and pulled the plug.

Son of goofus a major league sissy the American public never took to.

Kov has complained to the ref in other bouts...The russian seems to do so a bit...

Here is a great stat that I often share with people: If we take Las Vegas and Oakland, we see that Vegas is a bit bigger, has venues for sure, but the Oakland Coleseum is a very nice venue! Used to take my older boy there for car shows lol! BEST nachos and chicken I ever had... We found the nice part of the stadium and this great guy, bless his heart, loaded up a plate of the stuff steaming hot, with all the trimmings, would not accept a dime. My son and I could barely finish them!

I digress....sorry, so anyhow...The airport in Vegas is a little better perhaps, Oakland airport is kind of out there...But they have all manner of modern conveniences... Oakland can easily host a boxing match and is also not really far from Vegas, when we consider the country as a whole.

Now you must know that Dre was the home son done good in oakland! He was beyond popular. His dad had been an Irish strevedore type, the kid was home grown, and... wanted to fight where he was raised up all his life. So I hear people cry, the same people who will go to Vegas for a match, dropping dimes with no complaints... And I have to ask why not Oakland? And what of a fighter giving back to his community by fighting out of the community? Why does Vegas deserve those dimes? when the people of Oakland support their fighters, and may want to identify with their home town guy.

So the American public can do what they want, for all I care. Dre lives in a suburb of Oakland, and had a career giving back to Oakland.