Roberto Duran vs. Henry Armstrong

[Rusty Tromboni]

Rusty,

Armstrong fought as featherweight 128-135. Lightweight division I believe is 132 to 135. Over 135 is considered Welterweight. Title's are drawn on those weight limits for each division. Does that answer your question. Cheers.

sometimes I feel I am in the Twilight Zone.

[ron davis]

What do you mean sometimes! Cheers.

[them_apples]

Armstrong has a style and mentality most fighters today arent ready for. hell most guys back then couldn't either, even fighters much bigger than him.

Duran has overall more ability, but Armstrong is fighting in a different era and Duran would likely play his game, so it makes it real tough to choose. REALLY tough.

My gut says prime for prime both fully prepared, Duran. But truth be told I wouldn't bet on it.

As for guys like Loma and Crawford beating him? hahah give me a break. They wouldn't know what to do with him.

[ron davis]

I used to feel that way.

When I first got into Boxing in earnest, about 20 years ago, the internet boards were full of campaigns calling Roy Jones and Henry Armstrong the best ever, right up there with Robinson.

I remember my grandfather saying Duran, not Charles or Wolgast, or Robinson, was the best he ever saw. But he also said things like: Joe Choynski would KO Muhammad Ali; and that Bob Fitzsimmons and Sullivan would KO Tyson; Bob Montgomery hit harder than Tendler and Williams (saw it with his own eyes); Eddie gregory (Mustafa Muhammad) was another Archie Moore. See how ridiculous even a firsthand account can be? People get old and pass on myths they heard, they also forget things they actually witnessed with their own eyes.

Watching actual footage has proven very enlightening and rewarding. We learn that some things that folks remembered was patently false, but other things were absolutely true.

Even Armstrong, falsely recounted his own exploits: he claimed to have carrier Ross in the final rounds of their fight. But the footage proves otherwise. Rather than taking his foot off the accelerator, he really turns it on at the end.

Duran's greatness is one of those things that holds up to the hype. He was much better than Arizmendi, Zivic, Angott, Joyce, and Jack. I'd bet you could bundle those guys up into a single fighter and still fall short of Duran.

Yes, at the thing they both do best: applying relentless pressure, Armstrong is probably the better. But forget about all the other stuff Duran does better (defense, power-punching, ring generalship), Armstrong pushes his advantage as a pressure fighter to a fault. He had no recourse against a guy like Zivic, who could match him for offense.

Those fights were about who wanted it more, and Armstrong came up short. He'd be SUICIDE Hank bringing that approach into the ring against Duran.

Really, Palomino, Leonard, Cuevas and Hagler - if not as great P4P - were all scarier opponents than Armstrong ever was. See how their ominous offense came as a deficit against Duran?

If you're a pressure fighter fighting Duran, you need to be the Harada or Lomachenko type. Walking into his uppercuts and falling victim to his rough-housing is the worst thing you can do.

It's not Marcel-Duran, but it's not close, either.

Sam Pian Barney's manager told Eddie Mead to ease up (carry him to finish on his feet) to Armstrong. Those punches may appear like Hank is out to stretch Ross, but' he can pull them and you wouldn't know the difference. He could have knock Ross out in the last five rounds if he wanted to. It's positively true.

[QueensburyRules]

Sam Pian Barney's manager told Eddie Mead to ease up (carry him to finish on his feet) to Armstrong. Those punches may appear like Hank is out to stretch Ross, but' he can pull them and you wouldn't know the difference. He could have knock Ross out in the last five rounds if he wanted to. It's positively true.

- -Robinson is alleged to have done the same vs Armstrong, so that can be seen as part of the fighter credo back then.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Sam Pian Barney's manager told Eddie Mead to ease up (carry him to finish on his feet) to Armstrong. Those punches may appear like Hank is out to stretch Ross, but' he can pull them and you wouldn't know the difference. He could have knock Ross out in the last five rounds if he wanted to. It's positively true.

Except the footage dispels that myth.


Actually, Frankie Carbo knew Ross wanted out of Boxing, so he paid him big to take a dive.

That's why Ross didn't fight his typical fight. Better fighters than Armstrong (McLarnin and Canzoneri) struggled much more with Ross than Armstrong did... so why did Ross look so bad against
Armstrong? Because he was paid to. Carbo helped him to craft an exit strategy.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Armstrong has a style and mentality most fighters today arent ready for. hell most guys back then couldn't either, even fighters much bigger than him.

Duran has overall more ability, but Armstrong is fighting in a different era and Duran would likely play his game, so it makes it real tough to choose. REALLY tough.

My gut says prime for prime both fully prepared, Duran. But truth be told I wouldn't bet on it.

As for guys like Loma and Crawford beating him? hahah give me a break. They wouldn't know what to do with him.

Lomachenko was fit to beat Armstrong the day he was born.

Lomachenkowas born in the Ukraine. He was raised with Boxing by a man who might go down as the best trainer in Boxing history.

Armstrong didn't have it in his fiber to beat Lomachenko. He was too soft. And his training was too crude. Arizmendi and Ambers gave him all he could handle. Zivic beat him.

I dunno how a guy that "bad" can be given any chance against a man who was basically born and raised to be a warrior.

You're comparing a street mutt with distemper to a game-bred and supremely conditioned Pit Bull.

[ron davis]

I don't know what you're smoking. Barney was telling his managers that this is his last fight. Sam Pian his manager told him to keep his trap shut about retiring, it could have an adverse effect on the gate and odds. He married into a rich family. Ross was demanding a guaranty of $45,000 per fight, never took a percentage of the gate, that Mike Jacobs preferred. Jacobs promoter signed Armstrong to a five year contract, to fight strictly on a percentage basis. This is to prevent setting of a prohibitive guaranty demand for the defense of the title as was the practice of Barney's management. Ross was washed up when he fought Armstrong, but he tried his best to win.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I don't know what you're smoking. Barney was telling his managers that this is his last fight. Sam Pian his manager told him to keep his trap shut about retiring, it could have an adverse effect on the gate and odds. He married into a rich family. Ross was demanding a guaranty of $45,000 per fight, never took a percentage of the gate, that Mike Jacobs preferred. Jacobs promoter signed Armstrong to a five year contract, to fight strictly on a percentage basis. This is to prevent setting of a prohibitive guaranty demand for the defense of the title as was the practice of Barney's management. Ross was washed up when he fought Armstrong, but he tried his best to win.

And Armstrong tried his best to get him out of there, but couldn't.

It's fun to play "whisper down the lane", but eventually the truth comes out. armstrong was out for blood.

It's true, Ross was well past his best. A prime Ross figures Armstrong out early.

[them_apples]

Lomachenko was fit to beat Armstrong the day he was born.

Lomachenkowas born in the Ukraine. He was raised with Boxing by a man who might go down as the best trainer in Boxing history.

Armstrong didn't have it in his fiber to beat Lomachenko. He was too soft. And his training was too crude. Arizmendi and Ambers gave him all he could handle. Zivic beat him.

I dunno how a guy that "bad" can be given any chance against a man who was basically born and raised to be a warrior.

You're comparing a street mutt with distemper to a game-bred and supremely conditioned Pit Bull.

you are comparing someone who was born and raised to be an amateur boxer not a pro boxer. Lomachenko was a great ammy, he's a good pro as well, but whats a great fighter like him gonna do with nobody to test himself?

rigo was off for a year and fought at 122, they dragged him in short notice and he quit with his middle finger in the air.

The Axeman wasn't even fighting when they called him to fight Loma.

Armstrong on the other hand has a whole world of experience to back his claim up in a 12 or 15 round fight. a little things Salido did are but a small "fiber" as to what Armstrong could do.

Loma has a smooth technical modern looking style, but he's actually using all oldschool moves which I find so funny because they call him hi tech. His training regimen looked pretty similar to Archie Moores.

I dont Doubt Loma looks good for about 5 or 6 rounds. past that, Armstrong starts to break him down. He's not going anywhere, he's not quitting, and he knows how to fight as a professional and takes chenko out late.