Anderson Silva vs Roy Jones

[QueensburyRules]

QueenB:

So you do not think Floyd sort of "carried" Mac? I didn't see the fight, really had little to no interest, so I don't pretend to know. I thought that Floyd might do so, to generate the possible interest in a later match.

As far as these cross pollinations in teh combat rhealm I think we are starting to see some guys who are training very much so, they can box and fight MMA. This will be an interesting development if it is shown that someone can fight in both worlds effectively.

From a very pure inchoate perspective, coming from self protection, fighting for one's life there are two forks in the road that present tremendous hardship to an adept; The first is that we will always fight the way we train. The second is, as Rory Miller says, "one cannot train for every type of situation that could present itself" regarding self protection.

So a very pretty girl comes to me, who never had brothers, probably never even balled her hand up into a fist, and wants to learn self defense. What will it take for her to agree to go in there against a padded opponent, and break down her own suppositions? Hint: Not many will.

So a prison guard (Rory Miller's field) is trying to stay ahead of scenario's involving a group of predators who have nothing better to do than invent different ways of attacking. How does one prepare him?

I raise these issues for a reason QueenB. To me the very rudiments of self preservation method and theory will tell us most of what we need to know when we match two supreme fighting men. The answer would be that the rules will determine who wins this match. Will the striking be more familiar to Roy? or to Silva? Paulie Malinogi had his own wake up call. I could have told you that would happen. For years as a bouncer I saw boxers swing and break a hand, etc.

If they fought boxing with boxing gloves Roy probably takes it. If they fought with smaller gloves, I think Silva might win. Whomever can adapt to conditions will thrive. And what of whether they fought in a ring, or an octogon? Cutting the ring down in a square is different. You cannot cut a ring the same way when there are eight corners.

- -So, TUE allowed himself to get smacked over 100x by a bigger, stronger guy?

Silva/Roy proposed as a straight up boxing match.

Mma guys are using boxers to enhance their striking while boxers have no need of mma to enhance their skills.

Elementary, Watson.

[billeau2]

- -So, TUE allowed himself to get smacked over 100x by a bigger, stronger guy?

Silva/Roy proposed as a straight up boxing match.

Mma guys are using boxers to enhance their striking while boxers have no need of mma to enhance their skills.

Elementary, Watson.

Certainly is has been the case with boxing and MMA, but the Lord and the Bondsman, via Hegel: The dialectic changes. If a distinct style of striking emerges from MMA it might prove useful to boxers. What I would look for is if we are getting better strikers in MMA. Not an easy question to answer.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Made his debut against an experienced fighter who finished as a credible journeyman and was KOed.

Returns 7 years later wiser and KOs a debutante, so some time after that with Roy attending UFC events they met and the idea of a fight was birthed.

I tend to favor Roy, but sorta like Dummy Kellerman telling us in advance McG wouldn't land a single punch on TUE, when in fact he punched poor Floyd around for the 5x5 min rd Time +4x1 min rests = 29 min before Floyd managed to get the political ref stoppage.

I can guarantee Silva a vastly better pugilist than McG.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/152826

Silva might be a better traditional Boxer than McGregor (and Roy is certainly far worse than Mayweather), but that doesn't really mean much.

We have evidence of Silva's Boxing career. He was a never was.

McGregor is a far, far, faaaar better fighter than Silva. Did I mention McGregor is a faaar better fighter than Silva? But we saw him lose to a smaller, older man in the ring. It was far from a flawless performance on Mayweather's part, and he had to really turn it up to get that stoppage. But Jones is gonna have an easier time with Silva - even Silva on a PED cycle to make Lance Armstrong blush.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Roy was a chinless bum at that point. Silva would have probably slept him as well.

I don't doubt that anywhere other than a Boxing ring that would have happened, regardless of Roy's condition.

But fighting w/ pillows on your fists requires different mechanics and strategy. I am sure you know this.


Again, Weidmann timed Silva. Roy's bread and butter was his timing. I really don't think he had much else. That'll trigger a lot of people, but there's endless footage to prove it.

[QueensburyRules]

Certainly is has been the case with boxing and MMA, but the Lord and the Bondsman, via Hegel: The dialectic changes. If a distinct style of striking emerges from MMA it might prove useful to boxers. What I would look for is if we are getting better strikers in MMA. Not an easy question to answer.

- -Mma thugs used to pollute our boxing boards with how their punks could take boxing punks in a street fight not knowing the infinite situations arising in a street fight.

Pretty low brow stuff, so I watched a few mma bouts for understanding and not impressed with all the rolling around that had bob arum and others using infamous descriptors.

I told em how easy it would be for a boxer with good feet to just jab and move and that was going to be the evolution mma was going to be moving to and I was right.

Gsp has won fights with mostly jabs to stay off the ground. Silva a league below gsp but still one of the better strikers who are a dime a dozen these days.

And the crowd evolved from booing standup and cheering the the unseemly suggestive rolling around to be cheer stand up and boo when the rolling becomes excessive and obviously useless. A good ko is the most dramatic action that can take place.

Gsp is p4p collectively a top 5 fighter of unarmed combat sports and #1 for me, but he's old now and should retire as he's been near retired for some time now. He still got a mind for chess, but too many creaks in that old body.

[BKM-]

I don't doubt that anywhere other than a Boxing ring that would have happened, regardless of Roy's condition.

But fighting w/ pillows on your fists requires different mechanics and strategy. I am sure you know this.


Again, Weidmann timed Silva. Roy's bread and butter was his timing. I really don't think he had much else. That'll trigger a lot of people, but there's endless footage to prove it.

Weidman was able to time him because he also had the threat of the takedown going for him, that's a major element in MMA striking. Roy won't have that going for him.

Roy has the technical advantage in the boxing ring but boxing goes further than technique, like I said he literally became a chinless bum. No chinless bum with no heart is gonna beat Anderson Silva in any kind of standup combat sport including boxing.

[Rusty Tromboni]

QueenB:

So you do not think Floyd sort of "carried" Mac? I didn't see the fight, really had little to no interest, so I don't pretend to know. I thought that Floyd might do so, to generate the possible interest in a later match.

As far as these cross pollinations in teh combat rhealm I think we are starting to see some guys who are training very much so, they can box and fight MMA. This will be an interesting development if it is shown that someone can fight in both worlds effectively.

From a very pure inchoate perspective, coming from self protection, fighting for one's life there are two forks in the road that present tremendous hardship to an adept; The first is that we will always fight the way we train. The second is, as Rory Miller says, "one cannot train for every type of situation that could present itself" regarding self protection.

So a very pretty girl comes to me, who never had brothers, probably never even balled her hand up into a fist, and wants to learn self defense. What will it take for her to agree to go in there against a padded opponent, and break down her own suppositions? Hint: Not many will.

So a prison guard (Rory Miller's field) is trying to stay ahead of scenario's involving a group of predators who have nothing better to do than invent different ways of attacking. How does one prepare him?

I raise these issues for a reason QueenB. To me the very rudiments of self preservation method and theory will tell us most of what we need to know when we match two supreme fighting men. The answer would be that the rules will determine who wins this match. Will the striking be more familiar to Roy? or to Silva? Paulie Malinogi had his own wake up call. I could have told you that would happen. For years as a bouncer I saw boxers swing and break a hand, etc.

If they fought boxing with boxing gloves Roy probably takes it. If they fought with smaller gloves, I think Silva might win. Whomever can adapt to conditions will thrive. And what of whether they fought in a ring, or an octogon? Cutting the ring down in a square is different. You cannot cut a ring the same way when there are eight corners.

Conor gets inside peoples' heads. It's all rumor-mill, but Floyd had made derogatory comments about MMA fighters previously, but then feared ever getting into MMA (rember his WWF crossover?). And even leading into the fiht w/ Conor was having second thoughts - but meeting Conor was better than facing down the IRS, or losing his "0" to a Boxer inferior to himself.
Conor fought smart. But his gameplan was built on making Floyd "fight like a Mexican" from the start. Floyd's offensive skills had clearly atrophied because even when Conor was prone, Floyd kinda stumbled through the offense.

Floyd's a minimalist and risk adverese, so he wasn't going to make any attempt to get Conor out of there early. He really seemed uncomfortable with Conor's size and composure. Remember, he refused to even meet little Nasukawa in anything other than a Boxing match.

Conor's hubris definitely got the better of him. But the payoff was totally worth it. Even if he had waited out a few more years, properly preparing with a real Boxing coach, and demanded Mayweather meet him at a more suitable weight, the hope of winning, while much greater, wouldn't necessarily carry the value fighting Mayweather in 2017 had.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Mma thugs used to pollute our boxing boards with how their punks could take boxing punks in a street fight not knowing the infinite situations arising in a street fight.

Pretty low brow stuff, so I watched a few mma bouts for understanding and not impressed with all the rolling around that had bob arum and others using infamous descriptors.

I told em how easy it would be for a boxer with good feet to just jab and move and that was going to be the evolution mma was going to be moving to and I was right.

Gsp has won fights with mostly jabs to stay off the ground. Silva a league below gsp but still one of the better strikers who are a dime a dozen these days.

And the crowd evolved from booing standup and cheering the the unseemly suggestive rolling around to be cheer stand up and boo when the rolling becomes excessive and obviously useless. A good ko is the most dramatic action that can take place.

Gsp is p4p collectively a top 5 fighter of unarmed combat sports and #1 for me, but he's old now and should retire as he's been near retired for some time now. He still got a mind for chess, but too many creaks in that old body.

Basically you are admitting that people are stupid. And that's OK.

The stand up has improved largely because that is the gap missing in fighters' skillset. It also has a lot to do w/ the cage and with scoring.

While I admit the striking has improved, and I appreciate that very much, the fact that "fans" don't understand grappling is very disappointing.

If anything, in a real fight, grappling is even more effective than you see in MMA. Being a good striker will win you fights far more often than not, but the likelihood of being a good striker often means being a fighter: who'll very likely see jail time/steep fine if they're involved in a fight; even a fight they didn't start.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Weidman was able to time him because he also had the threat of the takedown going for him, that's a major element in MMA striking. Roy won't have that going for him.

Roy has the technical advantage in the boxing ring but boxing goes further than technique, like I said he literally became a chinless bum. No chinless bum with no heart is gonna beat Anderson Silva in any kind of standup combat sport including boxing.

Rewatch the fight. Silva was baiting Weidmann. Obviously the distance and range is different in MMA than in Boxing. But it was considered a given that Weidmann would try to press his wrestling advantage. the fact that he was standing w/ Silva (in both fights) gave Silva hope that weidmann would comit an error. Silva had caught plenty of fighters coming forward. Usually, they were rushing him to get in place to clinch or execute a takedown. Weidmann was frustrating Silva because he was comitted to a standup fight - but not on Silva's terms.

Rewatch the fight. It wasn't like CroCop-Filipovic I, or McGregor vs. Mendes/Khabid.
Jones can hide behind his gloves. He can rest on the ropes. Silva, off his PEDs, couldn't drop Diaz.

[Rusty Tromboni]

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Gsp is p4p collectively a top 5 fighter of unarmed combat sports and #1 for me, but he's old now and should retire as he's been near retired for some time now. He still got a mind for chess, but too many creaks in that old body.

you're right about GSP, though. Absolute legend. He's the benchmark for any athlete.