How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?

[billeau2]

Do you see any short heavyweight beating Fury ?

Frazier, Tyson (who Fury famously said would KO him in one round), Toney, Johnson, Mercer, Prime Evander ?

Fury is very talented. He is also old school in that he was trained up as a youngster to get all the right habits...the things that need to be scrubbed, like when Louis telegraphed his right and Shmelling was able to beat him.

If we are talking Fury against Marciano I think Fury could win that fight.

[jack p]

As you know, fighters in the modern era--in which 30+ hours elapse between weigh-ins and fight times--typically put on about 10% of bodyweight after the weigh-ins; welterweights tend to step into the ring weighing in the low-mid 160s, middleweights in the low-high 170s, light-heavyweights in the low 190s, etc.

The Marciano of historical record would easily be able to weigh in at 175lbs or under; as he fought in the heavyweight division there was no reason for him to dehydrate himself to meet any weight limit.

No hes not. You think he is
Let me explain it..
No fighter today is as well conditioned as Marciano. He would be 8 months in the training camp.
You probably think theres a lot of guys as well conditioned as him.
But no there not
If they were as well conditioned as him they wouldn't.
need to dehydrate to make weight. They would already be at that weight.
Marciano could have trained like them. Then hydrated to make 185. Instead he spend 8 months in training camp to be 185

Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore they weighed more then Marciano when they fought him.
Even though they weighed more. They could have made 175
Marciano could not. Unless he loses muscle mass.
Hes to well conditioned

[The Old LefHook]

Like Billy said, Fury has some boxing knowledge, he is comfortable in the ring like part of his own house. That does not mean he is not a scrub--he certainly is an oaf and a scrub, not to even mention his churlmanship.

Along with his great size he is kinda tricky with his little slaps, and can take a hella shot as well. Mouth-wise, he is disgusting and semi-entertaining at the same time.

Bottom line: He punches like a little girl. No one wants a heavyweight champ who punches with sissy force. He does not have the manpower, a word soon to be outlawed in creepy California.

[Ben Bolt]

This discussion is as common in this section as a summer's day in July.

“How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?” and my reply is always that they would fare pretty badly, which angers a lot of boxing followers.

But every sport and its athletes has developed a lot since the 1930s and 50s, and my strong belief is that boxing is no exception.

Jesse Owens was the fastest 100m runner in the 1930s, but had been outclassed by today’s Usain Bolt. But that doesn’t mean that they are not equal greats. They are.

“You can’t separate a champion from his time.” – Sonny Liston

[billeau2]

“How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?” and my reply is always that they would fare pretty badly, which angers a lot of boxing followers.

But every sport and its athletes has developed a lot since the 1930s and 50s, and my strong belief is that boxing is no exception.

Jesse Owens was the fastest 100m runner in the 1930s, but had been outclassed by today’s Usain Bolt. But that doesn’t mean that they are not equal greats. They are.

“You can’t separate a champion from his time.” – Sonny Liston

Well ben the debate partially seems to stem from whether all sports follow a similar trajectory. I think it is very tempting to believe that they do, but I do not think this is a true statement. If you looka t human statistics any changes that have occured in the history of any of them have occured in a very narrow band of time. Virtually all of them have come from optimising certain conditions. medical anthropology has demonstrated that if we look at a more robust length of time we will see that human settlement patterns demonstrate that seafood eaters, have the best bone structures, vis a vis bone structure is optimized with a diet of shellfish and fish in general.

Furtherback than that? human beings were more physically robust. This means that a lot of changes that we see are more in tune with technological developments and with targeted nutrition, physiological knowledge and just understanding of the sport in question.

here is the problem: Boxing had more knowledge, more gifted trainers and better conditioned fighters in the past. this is counterbalanced by more world participation. While this is good, the amount of knowledge and understanding that was part of boxing when it was more popular can never be replaced. Too much competition from other sports that were not a factor when being the heavyweight champ of the world was what every kid wanted to be.

You see it in the tape, the condition and the sheer amount of things a fighter had to do compared to today.

[The Old LefHook]

Well ben the debate partially seems to stem from whether all sports follow a similar trajectory. I think it is very tempting to believe that they do, but I do not think this is a true statement. If you looka t human statistics any changes that have occured in the history of any of them have occured in a very narrow band of time. Virtually all of them have come from optimising certain conditions. medical anthropology has demonstrated that if we look at a more robust length of time we will see that human settlement patterns demonstrate that seafood eaters, have the best bone structures, vis a vis bone structure is optimized with a diet of shellfish and fish in general.

Furtherback than that? human beings were more physically robust. This means that a lot of changes that we see are more in tune with technological developments and with targeted nutrition, physiological knowledge and just understanding of the sport in question.

here is the problem: Boxing had more knowledge, more gifted trainers and better conditioned fighters in the past. this is counterbalanced by more world participation. While this is good, the amount of knowledge and understanding that was part of boxing when it was more popular can never be replaced. Too much competition from other sports that were not a factor when being the heavyweight champ of the world was what every kid wanted to be.

You see it in the tape, the condition and the sheer amount of things a fighter had to do compared to today.

An excellent post, Bilbo, but critical reflection may confuse and dazzle our local lads via logic load. They are as unpracticed at logic as they are at the curtsy.

[GelfSara]

No hes not. You think he is
Let me explain it..
No fighter today is as well conditioned as Marciano. He would be 8 months in the training camp.
You probably think theres a lot of guys as well conditioned as him.
But no there not
If they were as well conditioned as him they wouldn't.
need to dehydrate to make weight. They would already be at that weight.
Marciano could have trained like them. Then hydrated to make 185. Instead he spend 8 months in training camp to be 185

Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore they weighed more then Marciano when they fought him.
Even though they weighed more. They could have made 175
Marciano could not. Unless he loses muscle mass.
Hes to well conditioned

If you are suggesting that fighters today should enter the ring at the same weight they weigh in at, obviously you disagree not only with me but with virtually everyone involved in the sport of boxing.

[billeau2]

Like Billy said, Fury has some boxing knowledge, he is comfortable in the ring like part of his own house. That does not mean he is not a scrub--he certainly is an oaf and a scrub, not to even mention his churlmanship.

Along with his great size he is kinda tricky with his little slaps, and can take a hella shot as well. Mouth-wise, he is disgusting and semi-entertaining at the same time.

Bottom line: He punches like a little girl. No one wants a heavyweight champ who punches with sissy force. He does not have the manpower, a word soon to be outlawed in creepy California.

[Dempsey19]

this is counterbalanced by more world participation.

I don’t necessarily think that this is the case. The no. of pro bouts in the 20s and 30s was higher than it is today. While fighters fought more frequently, there were also less weight classes.

I’d argue that the gene pool in a certain weight division in boxing may well be smaller than it was back in the day.

[Dempsey19]

“How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?” and my reply is always that they would fare pretty badly, which angers a lot of boxing followers.

But every sport and its athletes has developed a lot since the 1930s and 50s, and my strong belief is that boxing is no exception.

Jesse Owens was the fastest 100m runner in the 1930s, but had been outclassed by today’s Usain Bolt. But that doesn’t mean that they are not equal greats. They are.

“You can’t separate a champion from his time.” – Sonny Liston

If Jesse Owens would be running on modern track, with modern shoes would he really be slower than Bolt ?