How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?

[Dempsey19]

Horribly against Fury. That's all that matters.

Honestly, I think Marciano at Cw would be a P4P sensation. Not on the level of Lomachenko, but still one of the very best we've seen since Duran. I'd say I'd favor him (narrowly) over Usyk - who is hismelf a very special fighter. Marciano was a savge. Like a Olivares who didnt't bitsch out when his opponent hit back. Or like a Frazier who didn't just do two things: the same predicatable attack, and flop on the mat when he took a punch of the chin. Marciano was a beast.

Louis would probably starch most guys. Then Fury would do all sorts of dirty things to him. Even Harvey Weinstein would get offended.

How do you think Tunney and Dempsey would do against Fury since you rate them both above Louis (far above in Dempsey's case) ?

[jack p]

Ramirez weighs 195 in the ring and dehydrates to 175 no problem. He's also 6'3" and low bodyfat.

If he can get to 195 why doesnt he gain 10 more pounds fight as a heavy. Why doesnt triple G dehydrate 20 pounds fight as a junior welterweight.. Triple G hes around tall as Marciano he can dehydrate 20 lbs easily? right
Welterweight James Vick is 6'3 like Ramirez. Why doesnt Ramirez dehydrate 35 pounds fight as welterweight. If Vick can be a welterweight at 6 feet 3 inches whats stopping Ramirez. You see the fallacy of your statement

Ramirez even if he has hydrates 5 more pounds from 195 and weighs a heavyweights weight of 200 and over. is still not a heavyweight but really a puffed up light heavyweight.. Where as Marciano was never a super middleweight or a light heavyweight

[Dempsey19]

If he can get to 195 why doesnt he gain 10 more pounds fight as a heavy. Why doesnt triple G dehydrate 20 pounds fight as a junior welterweight.. Triple G hes around tall as Marciano he can dehydrate 20 lbs easily? right
Welterweight James Vick is 6'3 like Ramirez. Why doesnt Ramirez dehydrate 35 pounds fight as welterweight. If Vick can be a welterweight at 6 feet 3 inches whats stopping Ramirez. You see the fallacy of your statement

Ramirez even if he has hydrates 5 more pounds from 195 and weighs a heavyweights weight of 200 and over. is still not a heavyweight but really a puffed up light heavyweight.. Where as Marciano was never a super middleweight or a light heavyweight

But that's the thing, Ramirez is a real cruiserweight ! He just fights at light heavy (or super middle). Just like modern cruiserweights are real 200+ heavyweights and Jarret Hurd is a real light heavyweight. The difference is that all of these guys use dehydration to fight at a weight class that isn't their natural weight class. Even a natural cruiserweight/heavyweight like Marciano can fight at light heavy or super middle, that's the beauty, or horror (depending on you perspective) of modern dehydration/rehydration regimens.

[jack p]

But that's the thing, Ramirez is a real cruiserweight ! He just fights at light heavy (or super middle). Just like modern cruiserweights are real 200+ heavyweights and Jarret Hurd is a real light heavyweight. The difference is that all of these guys use dehydration to fight at a weight class that isn't their natural weight class. Even a natural cruiserweight/heavyweight like Marciano can fight at light heavy or super middle, that's the beauty, or horror (depending on you perspective) of modern dehydration/rehydration regimens.

Dehydrations nothing new Boxers been doing it for years
Marciano could never make light heavy. He could make cruiserweight today but he could never make light heavy.. Being a natural heavys not just about weight its about strength. Rockys far stronger then Ramirez Just like even though Moore outweighed Rocky for their fight. He wasnt as strong
Say Ramiriez walking around weight is 195 he loses 20 pounds to make 175. Marcianos walking around weight is around 205 to 210 Just like Dempseys was around 210. Dempsey said he would have around 20 pounds to lose in training camp

[billeau2]

Dehydrations nothing new Boxers been doing it for years
Marciano could never make light heavy. He could make cruiserweight today but he could never make light heavy.. Being a natural heavys not just about weight its about strength. Rockys far stronger then Ramirez Just like even though Moore outweighed Rocky for their fight. He wasnt as strong
Say Ramiriez walking around weight is 195 he loses 20 pounds to make 175. Marcianos walking around weight is around 205 to 210 Just like Dempseys was around 210. Dempsey said he would have around 20 pounds to lose in training camp

Rocky also liked to eat. Believe me, if someone had convinced him that being over 200 would increase his success he would have jumped at the chance. No...fighters back then were taught to carry no extra weight and for good reason. Extra weight can be understood thusly: If one takes a ruck and fills it with rocks and puts it on their back.

You can even read some of the ideas proposed back then. The issue was very clear: you didn't come into the ring with extra weight.

This discussion is as common in this section as a summer's day in July. "bigness" is a quality that far exceeds weight. My mother in law was 280...she was hardly ready to challenge for the heavyweight title. There is bone strength and density for example. I was once told that an XRay i took was not coming out because my leg bones were unusually dense. There is also the size of hands, shoulders, neck, etc. where is the weight?

At any rate Rocky would be a heavy in any era. Cunningham versus Fury was a decent scrap... Fury is so much better since, but Marciano was so much better than Cunningham, and so it goes lol.

[GelfSara]

Would Rocko have bulked to over 200lbs or cut to 175 or under if he fought today?

In the modern era, light-heavyweights tend to weigh over 190 lbs in the ring; Marciano fought from the mid 180s to the low 190s so he was essentially a small LH by today's standards.

[Rusty Tromboni]

How do you think Tunney and Dempsey would do against Fury since you rate them both above Louis (far above in Dempsey's case) ?

Not well. Fury is a way too big. It's like asking how would Whitaker or Pep fare against those guys.


I think Dempsey has a strong chance of bombing Wilder out of there, though.

[jack p]

[QUOTE=billeau2;19909784]Rocky also liked to eat. Believe me, if someone had convinced him that being over 200 would increase his success he would have jumped at the chance. No...fighters back then were taught to carry no extra weight and for good reason. Extra weight can be understood thusly: If one takes a ruck and fills it with rocks and puts it on their back.

You can even read some of the ideas proposed back then. The issue was very clear: you didn't come into the ring with extra weight.

This discussion is as common in this section as a summer's day in July. "bigness" is a quality that far exceeds weight. My mother in law was 280...she was hardly ready to challenge for the heavyweight title. There is bone strength and density for example. I was once told that an XRay i took was not coming out because my leg bones were unusually dense. There is also the size of hands, shoulders, neck, etc. where is the weight?

At any rate Rocky would be a heavy in any era.


Thank You You said it the way i wanted to say it..
You summarized beautifully
" Bigness" is a quality that far exceeds weight"
Words of Wisdom

No way Rockys making super middleweight"
Rockys the type of guy put on weight easy. He could easily went in the ring 200 210 . But it wont make him stronger.
Rock carried a lot of weight in his bottom half
Rocky had a solid trunk and thick legs . A lot of his punching power was generated through his legs

[jack p]

I think Dempsey has a strong chance of bombing Wilder out of there, though.[/QUOTE]

Dempsey feasted on big men. Its against Big men Dempsey looks his most invincible.
Hes to quick. They cant avoid his rushes
Its the small quick guys he struggled with. You saw how quick he moves with Willard. He is in his prime as a fighter. His body weights moving like lightning. The Bigger his opponent
the larger the target Dempsey has to aim out..
Dempseys a fast starter. His one thought is to get on his man and knock him horizontal

[billeau2]

[QUOTE=jack p;19910636]

Rocky also liked to eat. Believe me, if someone had convinced him that being over 200 would increase his success he would have jumped at the chance. No...fighters back then were taught to carry no extra weight and for good reason. Extra weight can be understood thusly: If one takes a ruck and fills it with rocks and puts it on their back.

You can even read some of the ideas proposed back then. The issue was very clear: you didn't come into the ring with extra weight.

This discussion is as common in this section as a summer's day in July. "bigness" is a quality that far exceeds weight. My mother in law was 280...she was hardly ready to challenge for the heavyweight title. There is bone strength and density for example. I was once told that an XRay i took was not coming out because my leg bones were unusually dense. There is also the size of hands, shoulders, neck, etc. where is the weight?

At any rate Rocky would be a heavy in any era.


Thank You You said it the way i wanted to say it..
You summarized beautifully
" Bigness" is a quality that far exceeds weight"
Words of Wisdom

No way Rockys making super middleweight"
Rockys the type of guy put on weight easy. He could easily went in the ring 200 210 . But it wont make him stronger.
Rock carried a lot of weight in his bottom half
Rocky had a solid trunk and thick legs . A lot of his punching power was generated through his legs

I always like to use personal experience because I know what has happened with me and when I injured my leg badly, i found out you could put on a lot of weight without even looking like you did. So even looks can be very deceiving. One can put on a good sixty pounds and hardly see much difference.

By the same token one can fill a pack with 60 pounds of rocks and get an idea of what that weight does to your finesse in the ring.