lennox lewis and George foreman

[clemenza]

- -Very ironic that both Quarry and Ali came down with Parkinson's in their 40s.

Or maybe due to the Irish genes they shared.

Yeah, that Chuvalo fight was bizarre. Def a knockdown and either the ref miscounted or Quarry was too confused to pick up the count. Something about Chuvalo's genetics and physiology made him immune from punch drunkeness. Helped that he was built like a tank, and he needed all that as he more than any other fighters has suffered multiple tragic family losses. He may be the only surviving member...God Bless...

You know if I’m not mistaken only Foreman / Chuvalo / Chuck Wepner are the only living Heavyweights from that early 70’s Era. I think contender Randy Neuman is still alive , Randy was a long time Referee.
George Chuvalo had a long long career with no downtime.
He had a jaw of concrete.

[them_apples]

Ouch thanks a lot...Now I will have to lay off Queenie cause that was some extreme ownage as the kids say these days.

But alas...I want to address some of the kurfuffle about David Tua...I can actually remember threads in the general section comparing Tyson to Tua...Yeah yeah I know.

Lets talk about one handed fighters, how they are made, how they succeed when they do... Lets bring in Razor Rudock. Rudock when he fought Tyson had become, by and large, a one handed fighter. But there are two things about Rudock that stand out: He was not Always a one handed fighter. Juggernaught and I defend Donovan often in this respect. Guy was a hell of a fighter. So what happened? Why? and what does it have to do with Tua!?

If you look at the Tyson fights RR had a lot of success, almost winning both fights by certain measures. Most of his work was done inside, fighting Tyson where Tyson could not get leverage. Smothering the smaller man. Razor's legs were already going, he was not going to be able to get up on his toes and box Tyson with a jab. So in a very real sense he didn't need to be a two handed fighter to get to Mike the way he was proceeding. He almost won those fights in the later rounds by trying to drown Tyson in deep water. He used the hook to come in and trade inside and smother Mike.

Tua never was a smart fighter. He never really was a two handed fighter and that is particularly dangerous because he did not have reach. Tua was never going to be able to fight and win at the top of the division with such limited faculties. In his prime he was strong enough and resilant enough to win some decent fights. But once guys figure you out, and your big gun(s) can be avoided... and especially when you slow down, you don't have the tools to fight at the top. Lewis embarrased Tua because he could use his reach to hit Tua at will.

Tua didn't know how to get inside and stay there, because the Henry Armstrong, Rocky, Joe Frazier styles were long lost. Tua would just try leaping in and catching the taller guys with speed. he never "worked" inside.

they used to use their height to their advantage, being shorter and nullifying the taller mans strengths. Tua never did this, even Tyson didn't - he was just fast and had a good offense.

[billeau2]

Tua didn't know how to get inside and stay there, because the Henry Armstrong, Rocky, Joe Frazier styles were long lost. Tua would just try leaping in and catching the taller guys with speed. he never "worked" inside.

they used to use their height to their advantage, being shorter and nullifying the taller mans strengths. Tua never did this, even Tyson didn't - he was just fast and had a good offense.

I think Tyson did some in his early days. Then when he stopped taking things seriously he stopped all head movement, and working to get inside.

Yup, indeed...Tua never did. He fought totally like the rest of British commonwealth stand up fighters and hoped nobody would notice he was as wide as he was tall!

[uncle ben]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQk9nGLY-Go

In that video you can see them both standing side by side in a ring. pretty interesting. foreman would crush him prime for prime lol

Foreman was wide open to be hit. He couldn't out box Lewis and if he just tried to run Lewis over then he runs the risk of being hit by Lewis return fire himself and Lewis wasn't a feather fist. He hit AT LEAST as hard as Ron Lyle.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Well, Foreman hits harder than Rahman or McCall. See how that goes?

[billeau2]

Queenie, Foreman busted up Kenny in like 2 rounds did he Not ???
This one always puzzled me for some strange reason , Hear me out George never got in the ring with “ Irish Jerry Quarry.”
He fought them all but not him.
Supposedly that was a fight Quarry wanted badly.
You would think that George would’ve stopped Jerry in the Early part of the fight round 6-7 probably because of cuts.
Interesting though.
Both men took on all fighters.
Quarry was a much better fighter toward the end of his career with Gil Clancey as his chief second, very underrated fighter that had some good wins and some strange defeats.

In those days the Irish still had a big part in the boxing world as fighters... All the BIG Irish communities had champs!

Like irish Pat Laler from the metropolis of San Francisco
Big Jerry Cooney from the Boston area somewhere
And so many lads from New York City...

Meanwhile the Quarry family? from the large mega mega district, city of....Bakersfield?

[them_apples]

Foreman was wide open to be hit. He couldn't out box Lewis and if he just tried to run Lewis over then he runs the risk of being hit by Lewis return fire himself and Lewis wasn't a feather fist. He hit AT LEAST as hard as Ron Lyle.

Yeah difference being Lewis couldn't take the same shot as Lyle before foreman ruined him.

I don't think post ali foreman was a good example though. Those remaining fights Foreman had in his first career after Ali was not his best work.

Ali really ruined George. When he came back he fought just like the post Ali Foreman, conserving energy, Jabbing and only throwing short arm punches.

[QueensburyRules]

Ali really ruined George. When he came back he fought just like the post Ali Foreman, conserving energy, Jabbing and only throwing short arm punches.

- -Some classic nuggets here , but not of the gold kind.

Ever compared the post foreman Ali numbers to the post Ali numbers?

Oh, 'pologies, I musta fergot you and numbers is sorta like a hippo ice skating.

And you musta fergot Ali ducked the big rematch $$$ to extend out the worst and most damaging part of his career!

Shame that, but oh well, it's settled history now...

[Mugwump]

Even if we knew for sure that a Ron Lyle punch is harder than those of McCall or Rahman it still wouldn't provide us with any reliable insights into the absolute strength of Lewis' chin - or anyone else's for that matter.

It's quite possible for someone to be starched by a punch which is demonstrably weaker than others which he took flush earlier in the bout or his career.

There are myriad complicated factors at play when a fighter is knocked down which have nothing to do with power. Where did the blow land exactly? What condition was the recipient in when it was delivered. As Sugar Ray once said, "It's the punches you don't see which matter".

[QueensburyRules]

- -Which Sugar Ray said that matters more.

Well?